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+---- Thread: where's the evidence (/showthread.php?tid=18770)
RE: where's the evidence - BigDHorsee - 10-16-2023
When I first joined, I honestly did not like grasse, like at all. Mainly due to the targeting and slurring. I have openly brought it up to many people. And then have seen him get banned several times since then. Wasn't entirely sure as to why he was unbanned so many times in the first place, but I digress. Honestly, he hasn't been too bad as of late. It doesn't excuse everything else up. But I have at least seen a bit of effort in not doing so, which shouldn't be a congratulations, but there has been some effort. Then again, maybe its just because I am not being the one targeted off rip now and maybe someone else in the community could be.
I think maybe a month or two ban. If it becomes the same issues again, more drastic measures such as a perma or longer term ban.
+1 for Perma Unban
-1 for a Complete Unban (Should get a month ban)
But I think that it needs to be owned up to for a little bit. And any cases of ban evasion by using an ult should be a sign that there probably won't be any change.
I think everyone deserves a chance, even if they already got a hundred other chances before. I have given a +1 for everyone basically, besides anyone who was a known scripter/hacker/cheater. Hopefully after time grasse can come back and there is no more of the previous issues.
TL;DR: Ban but not perma. If any violations/offenses occur, give the boot for good. This should be the very last straw.
Also, would like to see how Toxic Void feels about the circumstances since he has been the one to give him so many warnings.
RE: where's the evidence - slater - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 02:27 PM)PandaInPants Wrote: "Also so many of the people here sre showing how big of hypicrites they are when they defend grasse slurring or now just join the server to minge and constantly go "whoopsie u didnt hear me slur did you?" Like arent many of you adults come on now its a fuckin video game go troll somewhere else. 4chan exists for you"How would that make them hypocrites for +1ing an unban request? Not all of the players are actively trying to "minge" and break multiple rules or ruin someone else's enjoyability in the server. But to lump players who are A.(just goofing around) & B.(players semi-causing trouble but with consent/semi-trolling) with C.( players who actively try to do what minge is defined as) is blown way out of proportion. Most of the players who show up in the server are either group A or B which is why you need to gauge on the player's attitudes in the server. if it's utter mayhem and nonstop trouble of players trying to actively break rules and mess with people, it makes sense, but if it's just players trolling around and breaking a few minor rules and getting warn's that aren't MAJOR or getting stacked up, then just vibe with the server. many of the people get on to play this game and have fun, even troll a little, you can't just try to force people to a not mess around and troll a llittle because that causes a server to die with the staff not gauging the server's attitude and/or vibe and thinking all players who troll a little are minge's as well + video games don't need to be taken seriously 24/7.
"So many of the people +1 on this are just ignoring the majority of Grasses warns are for slurs. Why is Grasse just forgiven for slurs, but if any random slurs every one here and their mother goes "staff get them get them omigosh".
The other part is that his slurs aren't really forgiven. that was on his own accord and something that should be addressed and fixed. same with ban evading. if he were to be unbanned, i think both of those issues should be addressed and fixed. but with the alt evading, it probably wont be a while till he gets unbanned. but like i said, they aren't forgiven nor dismissed, but they do need to be addressed and dealt with. I enjoy playing with grasse on TTT and having him as a friend but there are issues that he needs to fix to be unbanned.
RE: where's the evidence - BIIG_SAD - 10-16-2023
alt evasion is alt evasion. one of the big rules anywhere is to not alt eveade.
-1
RE: where's the evidence - Jawa - 10-16-2023
+1 unban
i like grasse he good man
also seems like the original reasons for his bans are dubious, not provable or rushed without much evidence besides mixed timelines and trollin, and people here are now just debating whether or not someone should be forgiven overall for past bans, which isn't the point of the original reason he's banned? can we do this with anyone with 10+ historical bans and just ban perm ban em
RE: where's the evidence - PandaInPants - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 03:35 PM)lacer Wrote:(10-16-2023, 02:27 PM)PandaInPants Wrote: -snip--snip- I also don't really believe that the people defending him (there IS a difference between defending him and supporting an unban btw) are the same kind of people that just get on to slur and troll other players.
(10-16-2023, 07:44 PM)slater Wrote:(10-16-2023, 02:27 PM)PandaInPants Wrote: -snip--snip- The other part is that his slurs aren't really forgiven... you can't just try to force people to a not mess around and troll a llittle because that causes a server to die with the staff not gauging the server's attitude and/or vibe and thinking all players who troll a little are minge's as well + video games don't need to be taken seriously 24/7.
Maybe I didn't explain the hypocrite and troll part as well as I could have. The hypocrits are the people who call out other people who break the rules and slur, but are also disregarding slurs for their friends or slurring themselves just because staff werent looking. Saying that his slurring isn't forgiven when the people im referring to are slurring themselves doesn't make sense. It's interesting that when I call out a specific trolling that maybe some people here have been doing you guys are saying that I am lumping everyone together and trying to force people not to mess around. Many people here have seen how I staff and know how much leniency I typically give. I am not painting anyone who disagrees with me in a negative light because the only people im putting in a negative light are the ones who have been behaving in the way I have said. I like Grasse, I don't want Grasse to be perma banned, but Grasse has been given many more chances and recieved much better treatment in his time playing after breaking rules than most other people who play on the server.
To clarify, not saying that supporting grasse makes you a hypocrite, but I am saying that some of the people who are supporting Grasse in a certain way are hypocrites.
RE: where's the evidence - angel - 10-16-2023
It's definitely quite interesting to see the stark difference of the replies here compared to the ones left on Shaye's appeal thread.
Not to beat a dead horse at this point, but if you're going to let your personal bias towards a player steer your opinion on whether someone should be unbanned or not, it's probably best if you don't reply (especially when you're not going to extend that same grace to someone you don't know or don't like in pretty much the exact same situation). Grasse has proven time and time again that he's not working on what he was banned for in the first place.
Being permanently banned for consistently slurring and ban evading (which neither should be considered "lesser" rule-breaking), then getting unbanned and ending up in the exact same predicament isn't something that should be overlooked. He shouldn't be given any more chances just because he's fun to play with.
If he hasn't gotten it down after 16 whole bans, plenty of warnings and chances, there is absolutely no reason to consider even a reduction.
RE: where's the evidence - soft speckled squirmer - 10-17-2023
+1 free grasse
doesn't script
trolling is such a nebulous rule to enforce idk how one would even go about it but if the server is more funny with a person being in it and they aren't aimbotting or rdming everyone or threatening to do nasty stuff to people IRL then it seems counter-intuitive to ban them
obv some moderation is needed to keep the server from being a big pit of gnarled 20 year olds shooting everyone and threatening brutal sex crimes nonstop, but that's not grasse; I don't think grasse makes the server less enjoyable for people to play on, which to me is a prerequisite to deserving a ban
RE: where's the evidence - Deadpoolz - 10-17-2023
I am biased +1
RE: where's the evidence - reina - 10-17-2023
(10-16-2023, 09:55 PM)Jawa Wrote: +1 unban
i like grasse he good man
also seems like the original reasons for his bans are dubious, not provable or rushed without much evidence besides mixed timelines and trollin, and people here are now just debating whether or not someone should be forgiven overall for past bans, which isn't the point of the original reason he's banned? can we do this with anyone with 10+ historical bans and just ban perm ban em
Part of the original ban reason was alt evasion. I'm not sure what you mean by "mixed timelines" when tiefling provided proof of the expiration date of the ban he evaded. Also, past bans absolutely play a role in appealing an indefinite ban. Not only do those bans contribute to part of the updated ban reason– 30+ accumulated warning points– they also show how he can be expected to behave on the server when he's given a 17th opportunity to return from a ban.
RE: where's the evidence - Jawa - 10-17-2023
(10-17-2023, 04:49 AM)reina Wrote:(10-16-2023, 09:55 PM)Jawa Wrote: -snip from a total stud-
Part of the original ban reason was alt evasion. I'm not sure what you mean by "mixed timelines" when tiefling provided proof of the expiration date of the ban he evaded. Also, past bans absolutely play a role in appealing an indefinite ban. Not only do those bans contribute to part of the updated ban reason– 30+ accumulated warning points– they also show how he can be expected to behave on the server when he's given a 17th opportunity to return from a ban.
(I didn't notice the picture above from Tiefs most but I see the Alt Evasion shit now my baddd)
I mean, there are others here who have more bans then Grasse and still are here, that's why I'm wondering when we're moving on to the list of others who have been banned a lot. Punish the crime not the past.
Moreover, I've always seen as Perm-Bans for people who are nothing but minging trolls, Grasse ain't got one complaint from anyone on TTT its just staff following certain rules, but a perm ban? For someone whose got no problems with anyone? Doesn't sound like it helps anyone. Ban em for alt evasion and let that be that.