(01-04-2023, 08:10 PM)jax Wrote:

(01-04-2023, 07:58 PM)real (5) Wrote:

(01-04-2023, 06:47 PM)Avi Wrote: -snip-

Why is Laced afforded the luxury by an admin "hoping to build" that trust over time for him when we keep regular people banned for the same thing? Why isn't someone like Timbo afforded the luxury of building trust again? He has 10 bans, Laced has 28. (This is just used as an example, no need to comment on Timbo specifically).

I have no part in TTT decisions or regular people getting banned for the same thing in most cases. I don't see it as a luxury. As I said, I think he deserved an opportunity to prove that he's changed and web mod was a first step. I fully expected some people to have a lack of trust based on his past. As I said, I think that's a preconcieved view that some people won't break easily. Some people can be stuck in the past, echo chambers, etc. I think he's so far shown signs of improvement, dedication to the community, motivation, and taking the role seriously. He's also returned as TTT staff initially, so it's not like I was promoting a non-staff member. He's my responsibility and I think that over time, trust can be built. Otherwise some people won't come out of the bubble that is filled with preconcieved view, opinions, echo chambers, half-baked context, etc. I fully recognize his past. I never said I didn't. We have to move forward and I think this is a good first step.

As I said before, the perks/perms of "Web Mod" have changed significantly, I don't think people recognize that enough. It's not mod in the traditional sense. It' a hybrid of Mod and TMod(which he already has on TTT). I think we need to not jump to concluions right away and allow some time to genuinly evaluate how it goes.

I'll comment on Timbo, sure. In my view, Timbo showed little reason that he should be trusted again. His app lacked effort, acknowledgement of his issues, etc. For Laced, he has acknowledged his issues and has been genuine in bettering himself.

I wasn't sure before, but this is obviously a "hey you're my friend, so here's moderator" type of decision. I've seen so many people in this thread defending Laced, who I've seen comment things like "You've already been given three chances. Don't come back -1" on unban requests. What makes Laced better than us plebes where he is given special treatment by an admin, in order to build trust again?

Respectfully, I don't get how this is favortism or some sort of "favor." Sure, we are good friends. I've known him since ~late 2018. So on the surface level I get why it appears that way but I frankly think some much needed context is here. For one, I can tell you have not read my initial forum changes post here. As I said, "Web Mod" is not moderator in the traditional sense. It's the only web staff rank. I don't feel like retyping what I've already said multiple times, so here:

As I've also said, I'm in a unique position be able to be able to determine how he's changed given my involvement with his past bans, promotion/demotion, and watching how's he's changed and grown. So i think painting this as favortism is not productive nor reasonable to infer, respectfully. I've said more above, but I can elaborate if you wish

(01-04-2023, 08:32 PM)real (5) Wrote:

(01-04-2023, 08:10 PM)jax Wrote:

(01-04-2023, 07:58 PM)real (5) Wrote:

(01-04-2023, 06:47 PM)Avi Wrote: -snip-

-snip-

(01-04-2023, 08:32 PM)real (5) Wrote: dear god i'm just snipping this whole thing

(01-04-2023, 08:42 PM)tiefling lesbian Wrote:

(01-04-2023, 08:32 PM)real (5) Wrote: dear god i'm just snipping this whole thing

Still not commenting directly on Laced being moderator, but people have posted recent examples of reasonable concerns, it's not just past issues that people are talking about.

Also, the powers currently given to forum moderators are still very relevant to the concerns raised against him.

(01-04-2023, 07:58 PM)real (5) Wrote:

(01-04-2023, 06:03 PM)Foxka Wrote: -snip-

[quote pid="140288" dateline="1672876037"]
-snip-
I messed up the snip but my responses are in black.

I wouldn't characterize it as it being "shutdown" moreso the thread being open past it's usefulness. There was meaningful feedback for the rule rewording, which was a work in progress when it was initally posted. I kept it open for those reasons. Once we finished the changes, I always intended to close it out and any further feedback, suggestions, etc could be made in seperate threads. After Battons' snarky comment was rightfully removed, it just made sense to close it out then. 

What determines the usefulness of a thread? Then why not close all threads after a certain period of time? Your response and what typically happens contradicts one another.


As I said, it was taken into consideration and discussed. I also went back and did some research of my own in case I was forgetting anything. Anyone that knows me knows that I don't make rash decisions and that I try to do things as thorougly as possible.

Yes, I said in my initial post that I expected there to be some opposition and a lack of trust initially. That is what I'm hoping to build over time. I think some people(this is a general statement) are stuck in the past and can't rationalize that someone can change and grow over time. some think that people should forever be judged on their past and their past actions. I wanted to give Laced an opportunity after all this time to prove that he's changed and this is frankly a good first step in doing that. I've seen that he's changed. Again, I've seen him at his "worst" in this community versus now. He's genuinely tried to better himself and has done that in my eyes.

Some people are stuck in echo chambers, preconcieved views and opinions, and trying to hold onto issues/drama that have already been resolved, addressed, or fixed. The only way forward is to build trust and try to break out of these past bubbles. 

I already addressed the shitposting aspects. For arguments, I've seen them as still being civil. Intent and context matters. If you have any specific recent examples, I'd be glad to see them. He said "i love u guys but stop being stupid lmfao". Which to me comes across as a lighthearted way of saying to stupid, espesically since he knows some of the people that are shitposting. He's still being objective too there. He gave a tame response, all things considered, to this thread. 

Clearly the issues with trusting certain people in this community are not fixed.  When there's a repeated cycle of gaining and breaking trust, you can't expect people to forget the past. Hence sayings like forgive but never forget.  Those past actions may have been forgiven, but they will never be forgotten, which is why it's critical to have those actions accounted for when doing a closed off promotion like this. There was no reason given as to why people should trust Laced again, and no amount of staffing can change that. Anyone can put on a face and pretend to be something they're not, and act completely different when staff aren't watching. I've seen in myself in game, and that's why I feel as strong as I do about what I say. That's why I've always said, community feedback is and will always be vital when making decisions like this. Now you have more broken trust, not just between the community and Laced, but the community and the admin team responsible for this decision.
You're also missing a keyword in your argument. A person CAN change, doesn't mean they HAVE changed.
In the context of calling people stupid, light hearted or not, that just adds to an already unprofessional feel for the community. Regardless of what the intention behind the comment was and whether you think  it was harmless, a position like that is meant to represent the overall community and should be professional when discussing matters like this with members of the community. This comment comes off as rude and ignoring people's thoughts on the matter, which puts this community and the staff in a bad light.

(01-04-2023, 08:20 PM)reina Wrote: I hope that neither side of the major argument that has happened on this thread comes away from this thinking that they have added to the discussion in a way that should affect the decision, because there were very few reasonable comments in this thread.

(01-04-2023, 08:20 PM)reina Wrote: After seeing the results of this decision, I think that creating an open line of communication for community members to privately share their criticisms, concerns, and compliments, may have been a good way to give the opportunity for people to voice their opinions. I do not believe that this thread as a whole was any more effective than Battons’s deleted response at communicating opinions in a constructive way. 

(01-04-2023, 08:30 PM)Noire ♜ Wrote:

(01-04-2023, 08:20 PM)reina Wrote: -snip-

Maybe the next time something like this happens, and if we have more web staff, they can do a lot of the moderating of posts prior to them being made.

(01-04-2023, 08:20 PM)reina Wrote: I hope that neither side of the major argument that has happened on this thread comes away from this thinking that they have added to the discussion in a way that should affect the decision, because there were very few reasonable comments in this thread.

(01-04-2023, 08:58 PM)Foxka Wrote: -snip-