[Kaiwan]

I was not made aware that there were deleted forum posts. See, that puts some things in perspective and then THAT should warrant an extended ban perhaps.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, Mr. Shwaggins. Appreciate your professionalism with your response as well!

I was also not aware of this. I remember seeing a reply from him on my report, but it was quickly hit with mass downvotes and got deleted due to what was said. 
If there was anything besides this I'd be interested in knowing exactly what it is. 

Besides that, I wanna reiterate what I said in that post. I wasn't trying to blame staff or call them out for what happened. It was more of an awareness post than anything.
I don't think the punishment system itself is a problem, or the severity (or lack of) in bans. The new points system is miles ahead of what we had before. Fanta has a week to reconsider his behavior, and if he decides to come back without changing the way he acts then he'll be dealt with then. Do I want him banned for longer? Yes, absolutely. Like Coco said though, if you leave it up to the victims they'll let their feelings affect their judgement.

[Dildo Shwaggins]

I was not made aware that there were deleted forum posts. See, that puts some things in perspective and then THAT should warrant an extended ban perhaps.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, Mr. Shwaggins. Appreciate your professionalism with your response as well!

I was also not aware of this. I remember seeing a reply from him on my report, but it was quickly hit with mass downvotes and got deleted due to what was said. 
If there was anything besides this I'd be interested in knowing exactly what it is. 

Besides that, I wanna reiterate what I said in that post. I wasn't trying to blame staff or call them out for what happened. It was more of an awareness post than anything.
I don't think the punishment system itself is a problem, or the severity (or lack of) in bans. The new points system is miles ahead of what we had before. Fanta has a week to reconsider his behavior, and if he decides to come back without changing the way he acts then he'll be dealt with then. Do I want him banned for longer? Yes, absolutely. Like Coco said though, if you leave it up to the victims they'll let their feelings affect their judgement.

Yeah, the forums posts were quickly deleted because they made no contribution to the thread but they were very transphobic. I wouldn’t want to leave the punishment entirely up to the victims either but I think the input should a valuable contribution to the formation of a final decision.

And as for my post here it’s definitely good for me to reiterate that while this incident is the trigger for the consideration it’s good to have a discussion to see how we can adapt it to the worst case scenarios and where it both succeeds and falls short in those cases

---

On a side note, I’m very proud of how everyone here has been able to civilly and maturely discuss this. A few years ago I could have seen this devolving into chaos and bickering. Maybe part of it’s because the community as a whole has matured with many members getting older but I can tell there’s been a huge “cultural” improvement since my time away from the community

[reinaberg]

I’m worried that the point I’ve tried to make has been lost because of a misunderstanding so I feel the need to clarify again, I never said victims of harassment should assign punishments. I’ve been trying to make the point that I think the environment of the server could improve significantly if the rules were updated with input from community members who have experienced the harassment, and creating rules based on assumptions instead of that input makes them less effective in protecting possible targets of harassment.

[ToyShop]

I think that with the most recent situation it’s clear that more needs to be done to prevent this kind of thing in the future. I think punishment for this kind of harassment ought’ to be severe. There are many gender diverse members of this community that are inadvertently hurt by those kinds of comments and it has/had nothing to do with the individual targeted. Incidences like this should be treated with the gravity they deserve. I think it’s the staffs responsibility to make an example that this behavior won’t be tolerated. I won’t lie, the sort of things said to Kaiwan in the screenshots she’s shown me make me deeply uncomfortable being a member of this community. I’d strongly advise the moderation team to revise their guidelines for punishment of this behavior in the future, and to reconsider the punishment they’ve already handed to Fanta. I think he owes not just Kaiwan but the greater dinks community an apology for his behavior.

[Icey]

" Note to Moderators: Use staff discretion when dealing with different levels of trolling, flaming, harassment and targeting as this is just a general guideline. Please ban fairly and appropriately based on severity. As always, if you need help, contact an Admin."

Everybody agrees that fantas harassment on Kaiwan should not have happened. The staff members have owned up to it and WILL BE BETTER IN THE FUTURE. I just want to clarify that there is not a set punishment for harassment as there are other cases more severe than others. I think fanta should have been perma banned because I think that shit is unacceptable, but please understand that we do take into consideration the severity of what has happened.

I wish I could say that if you guys take your problems to any mod that something will be done about it, but sadly this isn't the case. What I will say is that if you guys don't feel comfortable making a ban request or feel you may be scrutinized against for speaking, know at the very least you can come to me. I will make sure something is done about it. There are many fantastic mods and staff members on this team that will do the same.

[Battons]

It’s a tough situation and pretending I have any solutions would be silly, at most I can say I think harassment as it is right now is punished correctly and examining some of the other punishments would be better. Especially now that the new warning system is essentially an auto mod for TTT.

[Dildo Shwaggins]

I think that with the most recent situation it’s clear that more needs to be done to prevent this kind of thing in the future. I think punishment for this kind of harassment ought’ to be severe. There are many gender diverse members of this community that are inadvertently hurt by those kinds of comments and it has/had nothing to do with the individual targeted. Incidences like this should be treated with the gravity they deserve. I think it’s the staffs responsibility to make an example that this behavior won’t be tolerated. I won’t lie, the sort of things said to Kaiwan in the screenshots she’s shown me make me deeply uncomfortable being a member of this community. I’d strongly advise the moderation team to revise their guidelines for punishment of this behavior in the future, and to reconsider the punishment they’ve already handed to Fanta. I think he owes not just Kaiwan but the greater dinks community an apology for his behavior.

I wish he would do something like apologize but his doubling down on it doesn’t give me faith that he would do so. The antics he pulled on the post before it was closed were also a testament to that. I’m sure he hasn’t said something like that here on this thread because he’s likely forum banned for a bit too

---

" Note to Moderators: Use staff discretion when dealing with different levels of trolling, flaming, harassment and targeting as this is just a general guideline. Please ban fairly and appropriately based on severity. As always, if you need help, contact an Admin."

Everybody agrees that fantas harassment on Kaiwan should not have happened. The staff members have owned up to it and WILL BE BETTER IN THE FUTURE. I just want to clarify that there is not a set punishment for harassment as there are other cases more severe than others. I think fanta should have been perma banned because I think that shit is unacceptable, but please understand that we do take into consideration the severity of what has happened.

I wish I could say that if you guys take your problems to any mod that something will be done about it, but sadly this isn't the case. What I will say is that if you guys don't feel comfortable making a ban request or feel you may be scrutinized against for speaking, know at the very least you can come to me. I will make sure something is done about it. There are many fantastic mods and staff members on this team that will do the same.

A lot of this situation I’m looking at what I would do if I was still staff. This is exactly what we need from staff though Icey so definitely keep it up

[slater]

Hi Dildo, 

I've been debating mentally if this would be a good time to post on a thread you provided, that may lead into a derailing with some statements I have in general about the incident that occurred recently with me on the receiving end of that whole thread. It's a hot topic to debate on considering some viewpoints I have seen recently from this thread as well as past statement's made by other individuals in the community. As such, I will start of with the main point in the thread to keep it on topic. I agree that consistency/severity of the punishment is wild and random as it can be debatable on what player should receive and how long, etc. etc. With the recent banning of fanta, I would understand other's thoughts of perma banning him as it would be a "fair" punishment for the harassment. On the other hand, I also see the staff's viewpoint, with the major advocate being Bryan and our dev team, making a mercy type of forgiveness in allowing players another chance in re-correcting their wrongs in the server. I understand that some players are opposed to letting detrimental players in the community to have another shot at being a "good egg." In my personal opinion, whether that may be a "bad take" for others or a "good take," the warn system is a useful and beneficial tool that can be utilized very well, but it can also have some inconsistencies. Not every policy, rule, system, or guideline will make the server perfect in how others dream or visualize it to be. There will be flaws in every system, no system is perfect. No punishment is perfect. No severity of the punishment is perfect. I agree with @Icey and the very useful concept of "staff discretion." It's a topic we discuss a lot on certain players and what everyone on the staff team thinks is a good punishment and ban length for said player. I hope that others in the community understand that it's not a "one person, judge, jury, and executioner," type of situation, but more of a council type of discussion if you get what I'm saying. I also agree with icey that you can talk to icey, me or any staff member you trust to handle a situation that makes you uncomfortable or embarrassed to state or permit. DON'T BE AFRAID TO SPEAK ABOUT YOUR OPINION'S AND THOUGHT'S. It's what we thrive to utilize scrutiny and criticism to better our community but also take into deliberation about what other's agree or disagree on. 

Off topic: 

With the recent backlash from players in the community and even some staff about staffing and what needs to be done to reduce these types of incident's, I would understand that player would be quick to jump the gun on threads with certain evidence. I would also understand that some staff members would not be appeased by the jabbing of scrutiny made to them about being "bad staff" or "not moderating enough" which would be a understandable criticism to take. In my viewpoint, I see and feel that some of these criticisms are more on the line of sending hate to staff members and bashing on them. It's not to say other points are invalid or wrong, but I feel that more posts have been recently shown as ASAB, staff do not do their job, or they should pay close attention to offenses. Staff members make mistakes and are human and are similar to regular in our server. Yes, we have a duty to uphold in the server to watch these things, but I also believe that staff should be able to be chillax in being on the server and not stressed out to cause burn out, anger, or even not staffing in general. I think that this can be debated on thoroughly and just some insight on my personal experience with this as I disagree with some points. Not to say that there are bad people because of bad opinions, but just a debatable comment that I want to chime in and speak up on. No matter what debate, I don't see anyone different if their viewpoints differ from mine, only if the debate leads into scrutiny and hate which in turn derails the debate. I am open to discussing and debating on what I said and feel free to reach me out if you have any questions or thoughts!

-slater

[Dildo Shwaggins]

Hi Dildo, 

I've been debating mentally if this would be a good time to post on a thread you provided, that may lead into a derailing with some statements I have in general about the incident that occurred recently with me on the receiving end of that whole thread. It's a hot topic to debate on considering some viewpoints I have seen recently from this thread as well as past statement's made by other individuals in the community. As such, I will start of with the main point in the thread to keep it on topic. I agree that consistency/severity of the punishment is wild and random as it can be debatable on what player should receive and how long, etc. etc. With the recent banning of fanta, I would understand other's thoughts of perma banning him as it would be a "fair" punishment for the harassment. On the other hand, I also see the staff's viewpoint, with the major advocate being Bryan and our dev team, making a mercy type of forgiveness in allowing players another chance in re-correcting their wrongs in the server. I understand that some players are opposed to letting detrimental players in the community to have another shot at being a "good egg." In my personal opinion, whether that may be a "bad take" for others or a "good take," the warn system is a useful and beneficial tool that can be utilized very well, but it can also have some inconsistencies. Not every policy, rule, system, or guideline will make the server perfect in how others dream or visualize it to be. There will be flaws in every system, no system is perfect. No punishment is perfect. No severity of the punishment is perfect. I agree with @Icey and the very useful concept of "staff discretion." It's a topic we discuss a lot on certain players and what everyone on the staff team thinks is a good punishment and ban length for said player. I hope that others in the community understand that it's not a "one person, judge, jury, and executioner," type of situation, but more of a council type of discussion if you get what I'm saying. I also agree with icey that you can talk to icey, me or any staff member you trust to handle a situation that makes you uncomfortable or embarrassed to state or permit. DON'T BE AFRAID TO SPEAK ABOUT YOUR OPINION'S AND THOUGHT'S. It's what we thrive to utilize scrutiny and criticism to better our community but also take into deliberation about what other's agree or disagree on. 

Off topic: 

With the recent backlash from players in the community and even some staff about staffing and what needs to be done to reduce these types of incident's, I would understand that player would be quick to jump the gun on threads with certain evidence. I would also understand that some staff members would not be appeased by the jabbing of scrutiny made to them about being "bad staff" or "not moderating enough" which would be a understandable criticism to take. In my viewpoint, I see and feel that some of these criticisms are more on the line of sending hate to staff members and bashing on them. It's not to say other points are invalid or wrong, but I feel that more posts have been recently shown as ASAB, staff do not do their job, or they should pay close attention to offenses. Staff members make mistakes and are human and are similar to regular in our server. Yes, we have a duty to uphold in the server to watch these things, but I also believe that staff should be able to be chillax in being on the server and not stressed out to cause burn out, anger, or even not staffing in general. I think that this can be debated on thoroughly and just some insight on my personal experience with this as I disagree with some points. Not to say that there are bad people because of bad opinions, but just a debatable comment that I want to chime in and speak up on. No matter what debate, I don't see anyone different if their viewpoints differ from mine, only if the debate leads into scrutiny and hate which in turn derails the debate. I am open to discussing and debating on what I said and feel free to reach me out if you have any questions or thoughts!

-slater

I think we’re in a good spot staff wise when discussing the particulars of an incident civilly so even with some dropping of the ball and what not, there’s a clear willingness to learn. One thing here is that is that committee style staffing is good to deal matters that contain a lot more personal baggage since it can get a range of opinions for a final decision. But on the server side at an immediate level, if staff sees something like that, cases of harassment can be just as if not considerably more immediately harmful. Even if the person comes on and says “abuse” I do think it’s a reasonable use of discretion to stop immediately harmful things from continuing. A committee is good to then discuss what happens after the immediate issue is resolved, of course.