[RussEfarmer]

I'll keep this "short" since this basically has a zero percent chance of happening and I've already made a thread arguing for and against the jump pack here.

If you are in a spot only reachable by a jet pack, you MUST be killable with a standard weapon, and by killable we mean a player without a jet pack. 

(I.e. the new players must be able to see you and kill you with standard weapons; grenade is not one)

This is confusing. There is no easy way to check if a hiding spot follows this rule, and even if there was, this is still a frustrating rule, because you can have a hiding spot that you've been killed in dozens of times, but get nagged by a staff member because it's "illegal". And knowing the controversy of staff and illegal spots over the years, you're always going to have 3 staff that say don't hide there, and three more that say it's okay. The rule makes sense in theory, but in practice it's confusing and frustrating.

A simple solution to this is to have a flat jump boost across the server, instead of having two "tiers" of players where one has a definite advantage over the other (i.e. jump pack and no jump pack). The fact that we even NEED this rule basically says people without a jump pack that just joined are going to be crap at the game until they buy one, so we need to restrict the people that DO have the jump pack as a result. Obviously the jump pack has its advantages, which I talked about in my old jump pack thread.

Basically, not having the jump pack and replacing it with a flat jump rate makes illegal spot rules less frustrating, and makes the experience of a new* player much less frustrating, because they're on the same playing field as everyone else.
*new means new to the server, not new to the game. I could have played 4,000 hours of prophunt on a different server, but joined THIS server yesterday, and I will not be able to play as well as others because I don't have points for the jump pack.

As usual, I try not to just blow smoke and back up my suggestions with a workable solution. This is the jump pack code rewritten as a hook instead of an item. When placed in lua/autorun, it gives the same functionality as the jump pack for everyone.

Code:

hook.Add("Tick", "jumpBoost", function()
    for k,v in pairs(player.GetAll()) do
        if v:KeyDown(IN_JUMP) then
            v:SetVelocity(v:GetUp()*12)
        end
    end
end)

[Pixie Pickle]

I get where you are coming from Russ but the whole point of the jet pack and all of the things that are on the point shop is to get players to work towards getting enough points to get them. They come back over time to build up their points. Obviously this takes different lengths of time for different players. 

We try and be as fair as we can with this rule, there is always going to be some grey area, we are only human. Also you can see it but most of the time if there’s a question about a spot it is discussed and asked about in our staff discord. It’s not just one staff member making that decision. 

I think that people on server who have been around for a while need to realise that we want everyone to have fun, new or old. If you’ve just joined the server and everyone is hiding in ridiculous spots that are totally out of reach for a new player to use a normal weapon on they are going to get frustrated and leave which is not what we want. 

The rules and guidelines are never going to be perfect but they are there to help keep the server as safe and fun for everyone as they can.

[jax]

I get where you are coming from Russ but the whole point of the jet pack and all of the things that are on the point shop is to get players to work towards getting enough points to get them. They come back over time to build up their points. Obviously this takes different lengths of time for different players. 

We try and be as fair as we can with this rule, there is always going to be some grey area, we are only human. Also you can see it but most of the time if there’s a question about a spot it is discussed and asked about in our staff discord. It’s not just one staff member making that decision. 

I think that people on server who have been around for a while need to realise that we want everyone to have fun, new or old. If you’ve just joined the server and everyone is hiding in ridiculous spots that are totally out of reach for a new player to use a normal weapon on they are going to get frustrated and leave which is not what we want. 

The rules and guidelines are never going to be perfect but they are there to help keep the server as safe and fun for everyone as they can.

If the Jetpack is causing significant problems and confusions, it should be removed. We have the same probably over in TTT. There are plenty of over cosmetic items and boosts available in the point shop, still, even if the jetpack is removed so players will still have something to “work towards”. 

Especially if you have cases where one staff says one thing and another says another thing

[TheUltraFish]

If the Jetpack is causing significant problems and confusions, it should be removed. We have the same probably over in TTT. There are plenty of over cosmetic items and boosts available in the point shop, still, even if the jetpack is removed so players will still have something to “work towards”. 

Especially if you have cases where one staff says one thing and another says another thing
[/quote]


It hasn't caused major issues. If there is a confusion on spots the staff team discusses it. This is just something that happens very rarely being brought up as a major issue for some reason. It has also been brought up in a way that makes it seem like it happens on a regular basis, which it does not.

Basically the rule is "be seeable at all times" for all players. However the more tryhards of the server decided to abuse it and say well "so and so" can get up here and kill me. Thus it was made a rule because they would do this when no one else could see or be able to get to them. Just like when we have to tell people to make themselves more visible because they do not seem to understand that showing 2 pixels is not fair when they would rotate themselves out of the map or be invisible.

If you are going to use the jet pack to get somewhere, either you must be visible from somewhere a person without a jet pack can get you or where they can climb somewhere to get you. It is not complicated unless you are attempting to be a tryhard.

[Deer-ly]

maybe i should make a jet pack thread compalation next

[VolfVoss]

If you are in a spot only reachable by a jet pack, you MUST be killable with a standard weapon, and by killable we mean a player without a jet pack. 

(I.e. the new players must be able to see you and kill you with standard weapons; grenade is not one)

This is confusing. There is no easy way to check if a hiding spot follows this rule, and even if there was, this is still a frustrating rule, because you can have a hiding spot that you've been killed in dozens of times, but get nagged by a staff member because it's "illegal".

I don't see how the rule is confusing. Who is nagging you? Obviously you are familiar with the rule so you wouldn't hide in such a way as to hinder the game for new players thus there would be no need for anybody to be nagging you, right? I haven't heard anybody but you (in this thread) complain about this, and I don't understand where this is coming from as you haven't played on server in almost a month. 

And knowing the controversy of staff and illegal spots over the years, you're always going to have 3 staff that say don't hide there, and three more that say it's okay. The rule makes sense in theory, but in practice it's confusing and frustrating.

I believe you're confusing previous staff to now. The current staff team communicates frequently when someone has a question, you of course don't see that because you are not staff. 


A simple solution to this is to have a flat jump boost across the server, instead of having two "tiers" of players where one has a definite advantage over the other (i.e. jump pack and no jump pack).

Wait.. so you want to remove the possibility of people progressing to this second "tier" just so that a rule will get modified? sound excessive and unnecessary. The supposed issue you're suggesting isn't a real issue, it's extremely minor compared to other things; though I will say that you taking the time to create code to "fix" this is quite impressive and I feel that energy could really go to better places than a Gmod server where as you said "since this basically has a zero percent chance of happening" .

The fact that we even NEED this rule basically says people without a jump pack that just joined are going to be crap at the game until they buy one, so we need to restrict the people that DO have the jump pack as a result. 

I highly disagree, I've witness MANY players without a jump pack be very proficient at hiding/hunting. Once they got a jump pack it definitely changed to being even better of a prop/hunter because they could think more vertical. The jump pack doesn't increase your skill, just as a novice painter with a high quality paint and canvas doesn't become a master painter just because the tools they have; it's the vision they carry and the passion in their heart. 


Basically, not having the jump pack and replacing it with a flat jump rate makes illegal spot rules less frustrating, and makes the experience of a new* player much less frustrating, because they're on the same playing field as everyone else.
*new means new to the server, not new to the game. I could have played 4,000 hours of prophunt on a different server, but joined THIS server yesterday, and I will not be able to play as well as others because I don't have points for the jump pack.

I don't know why you say "less frustrating" when you literally don't have to worry about it. You're a Donor, not staff. You don't have to enforce any rules, but you choose to then you make threads about things you are tired of or that frustrate you.  This is not me attacking you, this is the observations I have made over the past several months and reading SEVERAL of your Novel posts about things you want changed.  

Your passion for the servers/community is noted. I honestly feel you could take all this energy and put it to better use. It takes weeks if not months to get any new thing implemented here, and that's if it's a major issue not something minor like a jump pack modification. 

[RussEfarmer]

I don't know why you say "less frustrating" when you literally don't have to worry about it. You're a Donor, not staff. You don't have to enforce any rules, but you choose to then you make threads about things you are tired of or that frustrate you.

Yes, I DO makes threads about things that frustrate me, because I want to see what other people think about it.. it's pretty interesting to know in my opinion. You're absolutely right, rules and guidelines shouldn't matter at all as long as I follow them. Actually they don't matter at all, because I don't even play Prophunt! I do this because it's fun and love seeing awesome responses by people like Pixie, Fish and jax.

What I DON'T like seeing is people saying I shouldn't be worrying about server rules because I'm not staff. Or people saying that I should spend my energy on something else because what I'm doing doesn't actually do anything. What you said is completely out of the scope of the discussion and I really didn't appreciate it.

[Deer-ly]

I don't know why you say "less frustrating" when you literally don't have to worry about it. You're a Donor, not staff. You don't have to enforce any rules, but you choose to then you make threads about things you are tired of or that frustrate you.

What I DON'T like seeing is people saying I shouldn't be worrying about server rules because I'm not staff. Or people saying that I should spend my energy on something else because what I'm doing doesn't actually do anything. What you said is completely out of the scope of the discussion and I really didn't appreciate it.

yes

[VolfVoss]

I don't know why you say "less frustrating" when you literally don't have to worry about it. You're a Donor, not staff. You don't have to enforce any rules, but you choose to then you make threads about things you are tired of or that frustrate you.

Yes, I DO makes threads about things that frustrate me, because I want to see what other people think about it.. it's pretty interesting to know in my opinion. You're absolutely right, rules and guidelines shouldn't matter at all as long as I follow them. Actually they don't matter at all, because I don't even play Prophunt! I do this because it's fun and love seeing awesome responses by people like Pixie, Fish and jax.

What I DON'T like seeing is people saying I shouldn't be worrying about server rules because I'm not staff. Or people saying that I should spend my energy on something else because what I'm doing doesn't actually do anything. What you said is completely out of the scope of the discussion and I really didn't appreciate it.

Not to turn this into a pissing contest or anything. I don't believe my comment was out of scope at all, as it was my opinion/observation. I'm not wrong in what I said that you literally don't have to worry about it, and the doesn't actually do anything was more your words than mine. "since this basically has a zero percent chance of happening "

My comment about you making threads about things that frustrate you wasn't a negative, more of an observation of your passion/opinion/perspective of things. I probably could have worded that better, that was my mistake if it came of as an argumentative or hostile comment as it wasn't intended to be. 

Alas, we are both free to our opinions and don't have to agree.