[bunniey]

Discord Name: NotRand#6969

Discord ID: 235194452858109953

Who Banned You: Jammin

Reason For Ban: "Stop shitposting/tagging Matt and stirring up drama" "Upgrading this to a 2-month ban for raiding and stirring up drama, you may appeal on the forums in a few days. In fact, I am expecting this to be appealed. But you just got off a previous ban for inciting drama. You all decided to raid dinks tonight, and I am treating it as such. -Jammin"

Length of Ban: 60 days

Reason for Admins to Unban: So, this might sound like I'm saying I didn't do anything wrong or something, or am trying to alleviate blame. That's not true. I was pretty straightfoward with everyone involved that a small discord ban, or just a mute which is what I thought made sense, well, made sense. About 3/4 of the way into our shitposting in general on discord, we'd figured we'd at least get strikes, and started to tone down some. It was a little late at that point, yeah, but I have no issue with the punishment. The biggest thing I really have issue with is that no one really had a problem with it for a hot minute. Many staff members got involved and everyone was cordial and laughing, it was a fun time for almost everyone. The more 'heinous' things in the whole thing weren't even done by me, and were done by people that didn't even get strikes. But for the most part, everyone was having a good time, so it didn't seem to matter, then it just suddenly very much mattered. But we were never told to stop in any way. The biggest "chill" we got was Jammin putting general on slow mode, but that's not us being told to stop, we read that as "just chill a bit, make it readable, and know that I'm keeping an eye on it now" which made sense too. But no one considered this a raid until the staff just decided we were raiding a server we had all staffed on and were joking with a bunch of people who seemed to be enjoying it too. If we had a simple DM saying "hey, chill" then we would have, no doubt. Because we had already made that determination that we would do so, we had that conversation. We were just having fun until it started to legitimately bother someone. Someone will bring up the "well you guys knew it was wrong so it doesn't matter if you weren't told to stop," to which I'd say that's just silly. In every single guide on staffing, a warning is pretty much always the first thing to be done. It doesn't matter if we were all former staff, that doesn't make the guide go away.

The other thing I did have an issue with was part of my punishment for being stirring up drama. There's just always this idea that people get that I love making drama, but I really don't. I had a long drunken conversation last night with some people about loving this community, and more or less everything I do has that in mind. I just go at certain things in more extreme ways because I disagree with staffing decisions on thing. Is it my place? Nope. But it's just something I'm passionate about at times. I don't want drama, drama just tends to need to happen when certain decisions are made, or certain things are let to slide.

That all being said, I would agree with a mute or something for upwards of a week or two in the discord. We let it get out of line in spots (but, and I think everyone would agree, I was the most tame of the bunch of people doing things, some of which got as little as a strike), so some punishment is deserved, especially with my just getting off of a discord ban. That's about it. k


Have you been banned before(any of our platforms & Link relevant threads): Yes, in the well publicized "Rand complains a bunch and gets dicked on for being stupid" saga.

Other: I do apologize for the timing, we had no idea something else was going on, and my condolences go out to Fish and Matt and Battons for all the work they've been putting in. I really am sorry that we made last night just a lot worse.

edit: fixed some bolding stuff

[Shshy]

I think the situation escalated when somebody posted Nazi pictures. That being said, Rand did not contribute as much to the 'raid' as some of the others. I was present during the 'raid' and found it really funny most of the time, I did not consider really anything that Rand said to be out of control compared to the others. Nobody was really breaking any rules except for some pings and questionable pictures. But to be fair considering you just got off a ban and started off with what happened last night, In my opinion it should be a mute for 2 weeks at most. Rand has shown in his appeal that he likes this community by not posting a meme appeal. and has also apologized for anything he did that was deemed 'rule breaking'. 

+1 on a reduction

[La Flama Blanca]

Rand asked me to respond, and as Ramesses II states in the 1956 film The Ten Commandments, “So let it be written, so let it be done.” 

What happened here appears to be a textbook example of something known as “groupthink.” I, of course, am only a mere amateur psychologist so I will instead defer to the professionals for a definition as to what this term means. According to Psychology Today, groupthink “is a phenomenon that occurs when a group of well-intentioned people makes irrational or non-optimal decisions spurred by the urge to conform. The problematic or premature consensus that is characteristic of groupthink may be fueled by a particular agenda—or it may be due to group members valuing harmony and coherence above critical thought.” As the article goes on, “even in minor cases, groupthink triggers decisions that aren’t ideal or that ignore critical information.” The Oxford Dictionary defines the term as “the practice of thinking or making decisions as a group in a way that discourages creativity or individual responsibility.”

First of all, there was a group involved here that made the decision to make a concerted effort to post on the forums and the Discord at approximately the same time. From what I have been told, this group involved Rand, Laced Xanax, Derp, and Deadpool. All of these individuals are former staff on the TTT server, with three being former moderators and one being a retired administrator. Derp was also previously the Deathrun administrator. Some of them have been in the community for longer periods of time than others, with that length of time resulting in an extended knowledge of past incidents which the group decided to classify as “drama.”

I will return to the definitions of groupthink which I have cited in the second paragraph of this response.

A non-optimal decision was clearly made by the individuals involved here, including Rand. The decision was non-optimal because it caused a ruckus on the Discord, which required the Discord administrator to step in and institute a slowdown of the chat. Many responses in the Discord were also deleted because they were written in such a way to work around or anti-slur rules. Rand himself may not have been one to almost write a slur, but members of the group which was involved in this rush upon the Discord did. 

I do not want to go as far to demand that there be a guilt-by-association ban here. That comes across too similar to the “Addressing Toxicity in the Community” thread that has been oft-criticized. I will state, however, that in most states, accomplices can be found guilty of the same crime as the actual perpetrator of the crime. An extreme example of this is sometimes known as the “felony-murder rule.” An individual who is the getaway driver to a bank robber is an example here. They are obviously an accomplice to the bank robbery itself, but if that bank robber kills someone while the robbery is taking place, the getaway driver themselves can also be convicted of felony murder. That is despite them not knowing that the bank robber would engage in any violent acts while in the bank, or even being inside the bank while the crime was being perpetrated.

An irrational decision also occurred here. Rand had just come off a Discord ban for inciting drama a few days ago. Rand may not consider this drama, but engaging in activities that he himself has stated “we'd figured we'd at least get strikes” for, suggests that there was some awareness that the actions being taken here were not within the scope of appropriate behavior. 

I also highlighted within the definition of groupthink the phrase “fueled by a particular agenda.” I think this may be the case here. There was likely a ringleader involved in this decision to blitz the forums and Discord. I will not speculate as to who that ringleader was, though I certainly have my own theory. I will provide my more-innocent speculation as to what the “particular agenda” was in the decision by these individuals to engage in this behavior. That would be that the members of this group were simply bored and wanted to rile themselves up in such a manner that one might crudely categorize as a “circlejerk” of sorts. An added bonus for these individuals would be to garner the attention of others. This seems similar to the pattern of past outbursts by the perpetrators. 

Rand wrote in his unban request that “I don't want drama, drama just tends to need to happen when certain decisions are made, or certain things are let to slide.” That clearly was not the case in this particular circumstance. Drama was absolutely not warranted in the slightest here. There was no incorrect decision made here, nor did anyone let anything slide here. What was posted was literally just dragging up old drama, none of which has any relevance today. The current TTT admin team has not been involved in the decision-making for any of the past events criticized by these individuals. 

The choices made by Rand and the other individuals also failed to rise above critical thought, and triggered decisions that were neither ideal and ignored critical information. This was most evident by the decision to include information regarding past staff members that have engaged in illegal and disgusting conduct with children. There are real-life victims involved here. It is inappropriate to just write these things off as “drama.” Both of the most recent events were particularly shaking to the PH staff. These were people that had been ingratiated in the community for years, with friendships and other ties as well. These challenges have made it harder for people in the staff community, myself included, to trust others here and far more apprehensive about what some might consider benign comments or actions. Some of the information included by these individuals was also either factually incorrect or misstated the scope of the issue. In the “List of Drama (by year)” document that was attached to the deleted thread on the forums, the extent of the recent issues in PH were misstated. The quote that I found particularly bothersome was “Abdel and some random PH staff were weird ass hoes” in reference to the recent issues. There were two people that were caught. This quote suggests that there were more than two people by not simply including the name of the other individual involved, but rather making the grammatical choice to go with the open-ended “some random PH staff” that could mean any number of individuals. The inclusion of this information was insensitive, inaccurate, and inappropriate. 

The final part of the definition of groupthink that I had underlined was individual responsibility. That seems to be lacking here. The thread on the forums, as well as the blitz on the Discord were a group effort. Some may have been more guilty than others in writing the more offensive posts and sections of that thread. What I am seeing here in this unban request seems to be a bit of “finger-pointing” already. It is true that Rand wrote that he is not trying to alleviate blame and not trying to say he didn’t do anything wrong. However, some of the language in this unban suggests that he is trying to minimize the role which he may have had in this such as “I was the most tame of the bunch of people doing things, some of which got as little as a strike.” Another example is with the references to the guide on staffing and warnings. 

---

My thoughts are that this all came as the result of groupthink. Poor decision-making by all involved. A two-month ban seems excessive, but a single warning seems too light. I do not see the need to alienate the individuals involved here from the community entirely as a ban would do. I think a more appropriate response might be an extended mute in the Discord. This would allow Rand and other guilty parties to remain a part of the community, but unable to cause any further rancor for the duration of their mute. 

Best,
Nicky

[lacer]

There wasn't any drama until certain staff came in and stirred it up, imo.

That being said, I know we took things a little overboard last night, but it's not like any warnings were even issued, if they were then we would've stopped. It honestly comes off like Rand was singled out and punished harder than the rest of us (who have been here longer than him and "should know better") despite two others, including myself, doing much much worse than he did.

I can understand the admins being stressed because of the other thing that was happening (that we legitimately had no idea about btw), but I think it's irresponsible to take that stress out on people who were just fucking around in general chat.

Again, I understand we took it farther than we should've, and I'm all in favor of punishment for it, but this is excessive.

Not going to argue the point any more than that because anything I say will immediately shoved behind either the drama stirring wall or the stress wall.

+1 for a reduction to less than a month

[Deadpoolz]

I want to start off this post by apologize for some things I did wrong. First, the doc. The document wasn't meant to be posted at that time. I originally had planned to remake it, so it wouldn't be filled with calling people 'retarded' and not a lot of information about each subject. The way it was formatted was to give an explanation for old drama to people who weren't there at the time. Hence why I didn't write much substance for stuff that had happened recently. I also had no clue about the recent circumstances on PH.

I should also state the true purpose of the thread as the person who was mostly behind it. The idea for the post originated months ago when we were looking at tier lists. About a week ago I decided to put the tier list into motion and make a notepad of all the event. I'm a nostalgic person, I like looking back at how things were. Considering I've been apart of the community for almost 6 years, I wanted to look back at big moments in the community. And it was pretty funny making the list on its own. That was the reason for making it. The reason for posting it was to hopefully share that nostalgia with some old players and show new ones the drama that had happened over the years. Nothing about the post was intended to be malicious. However, because of the mistake with the doc it may have came off that way.

Second, the discord stuff. I definitely participated in the discord shenanigans. However, the worst offences I did were posting images and @ing random people. I was definitely posting a lot, but not on a terribly high level.

I also highlighted within the definition of groupthink the phrase “fueled by a particular agenda.” I think this may be the case here. There was likely a ringleader involved in this decision to blitz the forums and Discord. I will not speculate as to who that ringleader was, though I certainly have my own theory. I will provide my more-innocent speculation as to what the “particular agenda” was in the decision by these individuals to engage in this behavior. That would be that the members of this group were simply bored and wanted to rile themselves up in such a manner that one might crudely categorize as a “circlejerk” of sorts. An added bonus for these individuals would be to garner the attention of others. This seems similar to the pattern of past outbursts by the perpetrators.

I disagree with this statement. I can't speak for others, but their wasn't an agenda or even a purpose for the discord stuff. We just found the memeing funny and that's generally how we act in any game or scenario. I also disagree with the believe of a "ring-leader". I don't think such a thing existed. We were just fucking around for a bit and it devolved into much, much more. That's about it.

As much as I disagree with the forum ban, I understand why it happened because of the context. I personally don't care about the ban.

Finally. In terms of Rand's ban though, I won't comment. Ever since 2017, I haven't liked "+1-ing" something when I'm good friends with the person. Sometimes it gets the best of me, but I try to stay out of it because my opinion doesn't always reflect what's right for the community.

[bunniey]

nvm to all that just gonna say that the post was never intended to rehash drama and everyone including you nicky thought it was good

and

spending years making fun of rippe: funny bc lily is a bad person i guess

talking about other bad people: bad do not do ever 0/10

[TheUltraFish]

boob
Other: I do apologize for the timing, we had no idea something else was going on, and my condolences go out to Fish and Matt and Battons for all the work they've been putting in. I really am sorry that we made last night just a lot worse.

---

I think I will be the one to add some clarification on this portion so that everyone is on the same page. For nearly 5 months now, a user who has been a plague has been visiting our server. He is hacking every single time however that is not even close to the major issue. When he gets on, he spams links in the chat of a little girl being sexually abused. The worst part about the links is that they auto opened in the staff relay forcing anyone looking in the relay to see them.


He gets muted immediately and then he gets banned within a minute if not seconds every time. We generally find an alt or two as well and ban them before he even enters the server with them. In some cases, I am able to grab an IP address before as well if I happen to be on at the time, he likes to disconnect and reconnect if he gets muted, and get those banned as well.


We have worked with other gmod communities that have also been plagued by him and have gotten several accounts and IPs banned before he can even think about joining. We have reported the accounts on steam, discord accounts on discord, and have tried reporting him to the authorities on more than one occasion. Two months ago, the alts stopped as well as the links so we thought he may have finally been caught, however this past week has proven otherwise.


The first few months it was me and Nicol working in the group discord while mods kept an eye out in relay as well as discord staff. When Nicol retired, Battons took his place in the group discord. Being the only admin of PH, I have only been able to acquire a few IPs as you have to be on at the time to get them.


Enter this past week or two with Jammin and Matt added to their respective roles. Jammin has been reliable at stopping the links immediately from popping up and Matt has been able to get Dink, with help from Russ, to add a word blocker. Even with all links blocked, this guy is still finding ways to enter the server and post them. The only main benefit that the blocker has brought is that the images can no longer open in relay.


The accounts banned on this character are well over 50 at this point in time with several IPs banned as well. To him, this is a game, some of the alts are connected while others are completely on their own. No matter what we have done up to this point, he still kept on appearing, including yesterday.


Yes, a number of staff, including upper staff are on edge or have been on edge for quite some time. Add in the poor timing of the events of last night and it was only going to create disaster. The images of a child are locked into our minds every time he appears, every time a pedo "joke" is made, and any time a pedo situation on the server or in the community occurs. In fact, it was one of the major reasons I left admin in the first place as I was tired of seeing everything repeatedly.


I do not believe that Rand meant anything "heinous" but it most certainly was not the time.

[lacer]

-snip-

I see. 

To say the least, this is awful, and I'm extremely sorry you guys have to deal with something like that. There's not a whole lot worse than having images like that shoved into your eye sockets.

Up until last night after everything in the general chat happened, none of us were aware that this was going on. We just got on the discord to fuck around and have fun. That's all.

Obviously this doesn't justify what we did, but had we known something that bad was going on, we wouldn't have even thought about it. As they say though, hindsight is 20/20.

[David]

This is a case of "poor timing" that led to what I would consider a MASSIVE misunderstanding. 


+1 on unban. Free them all!!!

[matt_st3 (Strongrule)]

The amount of spam in that chat was not just fucking around. A lot of threads were quoted, a thread was made, supposedly there was some pre agreement that you would back down plus the group creation of the thread says that this was a pre planned night. Whatever the reason, jammin issuing only two bans was extremely light considering the amount of times some of the players have caused or been part of similar issues. This stress or admins being on edge was not taken out on 4 random players just vibing in discord. 2 temp bans and a few warnings on discord were issued plus an overnight ban for forums. That’s it. In 17, 18 when a few of you joined you would have just been gone over something like this for quite a time. Many of you were previous mods or admins and all adults. So was this normal just hanging out in discord behavior?
To rands ban - I believe you backed out yet at the same time you just came off a discord ban for similar “drama” reasons. Maybe this wouldn’t normally warrant more than a month under other circumstances but I also don’t like decreasing ban times on similar infractions. Ultimately for your ban concerning discord, I’m split. I will acknowledge I’m a lot more heavy handed this week but I do think we’ve stopped making an impression with bans or moderation and just slap on the wrist for years in a row. Y’all jumped in and broke rules of spam and either evading slurs and tagging older ones. I really don’t know what to tell you.