[Aasakael]

Offender's Name: (s)haye

Offender's SteamID: STEAM_0:0:94159295

Potential Witnesses: HONG, hahaha, killahsasin

Reason to Ban: Map Exploiting

Proof: https://imgur.com/gallery/LEgmtX5
Sorry about the imgur ones, I couldnt upload directly here because the file size was larger then 500kb.
The imgur pics show (s)haye using the exploit on casino to kill people. He used a grappling hook to get to spots normal players could not get to and abused the spot for kills. Not cool

[lacer]

This might be the only pic that holds any ground. IIRC that spot is "out of the map" technically

[.cee]

It appears to be fine as long as the player wasn't actively trying to escape the map and get to areas where they cannot be shot. I believe the player can be shot from both areas you screenshot.

The rules do state that escaping the maps intended bounds and using the grappling hook in a way to gain an unfair advantage (by being outside the maps bounds in places other players do not think to check) are considered exploits though. Interested to see how management will interpret this.

[Aasakael]

Offender's Name: (s)haye

Offender's SteamID: STEAM_0:0:94159295

Potential Witnesses: HONG, hahaha, killahsasin

Reason to Ban: Map Exploiting

Proof: https://imgur.com/gallery/LEgmtX5
Sorry about the imgur ones, I couldnt upload directly here because the file size was larger then 500kb.
The imgur pics show (s)haye using the exploit on casino to kill people. He used a grappling hook to get to spots normal players could not get to and abused the spot for kills. Not cool

Proceeded to admit he doesn't care if he gets punished or not. It would be cool if he just admitted it wasnt very cool to do that but he doesnt care whatsoever.

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It appears to be fine as long as the player wasn't actively trying to escape the map and get to areas where they cannot be shot. I believe the player can be shot from both areas you screenshot.

The rules do state that escaping the maps intended bounds and using the grappling hook in a way to gain an unfair advantage (by being outside the maps bounds in places other players do not think to check) are considered exploits though. Interested to see how management will interpret this.

To be fair I'm pretty sure most people aren't checking the rooftops all around the outside section because normal players can't get there, you need a grappling hook to get to the spots he was at. But I do see where you are coming from on this

[HONG]

It appears to be fine as long as the player wasn't actively trying to escape the map and get to areas where they cannot be shot. I believe the player can be shot from both areas you screenshot.

agreed
as a witness, she never moved outside of visible/shootable range and overall it didnt seem malicious at all, nor a big deal in general (as i was able to kill her)
-1

[conversion software version 7.0]

-1 I don't support a ban, I don't think it's that serious, but I would love to actually hear something concrete on how the grapple hook should be used. I think the admins definitely weasel their way out of enforcing any kind of policy about this item, given that grapple hook exploiting (the horizontal whiplash thing) is constantly done even around staff with no punishment/warnings (despite it not being allowed... allegedly) and people constantly grappling into areas that could not be reached without propsurfing/grapple hooking, which I would definitely argue is considered map exploiting under the currently defined rules.

[shaye]

i never went to the water or hid, I'm sorry i was having fun

[Aasakael]

Offender's Name: (s)haye

Offender's SteamID: STEAM_0:0:94159295

Potential Witnesses: HONG, hahaha, killahsasin

Reason to Ban: Map Exploiting

Proof: https://imgur.com/gallery/LEgmtX5
Sorry about the imgur ones, I couldnt upload directly here because the file size was larger then 500kb.
The imgur pics show (s)haye using the exploit on casino to kill people. He used a grappling hook to get to spots normal players could not get to and abused the spot for kills. Not cool

I agree a ban is not necessary, but some clarification on what can and can't be done using the grapple would be nice. I dont think its fair to have people using spots such as those because you dont normally think to check there. Its much easier to get the drop on someone when in a spot like that, as its not something normal people can access

[La Flama Blanca]

For those desiring further guidance on how the Grapple Hook is to be used, or not used:

Rule 5 in the TTT Rules: Do Not Exploit, Hack, Metagame or Otherwise Avoid the Game's Intended Limits
"Do not try to escape the map bounds or exploit map/server bugs."
"Do not exploit or abuse the grappling hook to gain an unfair advantage such as flying horizontally with it."

From the TTT Staff Guidelines: Map Exploits / Glitch Abuse
"Exploiting largely applies to map exploits with people trying to get to places they should not access. Examples of such places are outside the walls in bank, going underneath the map on aircraft, and the top of many buildings in amsterville. Generally, if a player cannot be shot or reached where they are, it’s a map exploit."

The Known Exploits Guide
"Exploit Requirement Checklist:
1. Can you be shot or damaged?
2. Can you be seen AND identified?
3. Did the map maker intend for you to get to that spot / get in that area as a certain role?
4. Can ALL players reach that area?
5. Does it offer an unfair advantage?


ttt_casino_b2: On top of the balcony. Getting across or in the river. Top of the roof behind small ledges."

---

If you read just the quoted portions of these three respective documents which provide guidance as to map exploits and exploiting in general, this is a pretty cut and dry situation. 

The two locations shown in the screenshots were both exploits. For those who do not have the best interpretative skills, I have gone ahead and underlined the text which demonstrates this to be true.

The locations were not intended to be reachable by the map makers. 

Not all players are able to reach that area, regardless of whether they have a jump pack or not.

The location provides an unfair advantage. Players are not on notice to be looking up to the rooftops of the map on Casino. Therefore, they are liable to be caught doing a traitorous act or just get sniped from above without being on the lookout. That is not right and that is not within the scope of the game.

Both locations are demonstrative of map exploitation.

[Jammin]

I think the admins definitely weasel their way out of enforcing any kind of policy about this item, given that grapple hook exploiting (the horizontal whiplash thing) is constantly done even around staff with no punishment/warnings (despite it not being allowed... allegedly)

Officially all staff should be warning for grapple exploit. I do it when I either
1. Witness the grapple exploit
2. Receive video evidence of the exploit

However, I can't see someone grappling unless I am in the area. I generally focus on the ground in front of me, not necessarily the air.

Also to clarify, this is a ban request for map exploit, not grapple exploit. There is no video provided.
I think shaye has some history of grapple exploit but I'm unsure of history with map exploit. Unless there is "recent" (2021) history of map exploit, I don't feel a ban is appropriate, maybe an awarn at most.

Im not home so I'll leave this open for another mod or admin to handle.