[Salty]

Fortunately, we really don't need to care if someone breaking the rules doesn't like being told what to do by someone they don't know. 

This is a good point; however, what I was eluding to is that discord staff are usually some of the most disrespected staff team members in the community, so dealing with numerous people flaming can and would lead to burn out.


Also, Wilfry: I typically view low effort staff apps as a shitpost. Before you edited it, it was on par with Bologna’s discord staff app. If you’re accepted, I hope you’ll prove my doubts I have brought up wrong.

[chelllman]

Fortunately, we really don't need to care if someone breaking the rules doesn't like being told what to do by someone they don't know. 

This is a good point; however, what I was eluding to is that discord staff are usually some of the most disrespected staff team members in the community, so dealing with numerous people flaming can and would lead to burn out.


snip

You've just brought up another one of my most disliked reasons for denying apps: burnout.
It's pretty difficult (basically impossible) to prove a negative, so there really is no way for Wilfry to prove that he won't get burned out.  
More importantly, I would argue denying someone a rank they should get because we are afraid they will get burned out will, in fact, burn out their desire to help more than getting flamed by members of the community.

However, he puts up with shit on a daily basis on the PH server (the vc is a dumpster fire 50% of the time), so I'm fairly confident he's going to handle people flaming him.
Wilfry follows the advice I give all staff which is to not take anything personally, essentially leaving your emotions at the door when you start staffing.

[Battons]

My biggest concern was the app appeared to be of low quality pre edit, I’d obviously not expect perfection out of staff but first impressions can be everything when it comes to dealing with more obnoxious community members. What made you want to revise this app, what would you feel you can bring to the team with your current skills, and lastly why should it be given higher consideration after being edited instead of treating it like the initial submission? I’d love to hear back from you here.

[Wilfry]

Snip

The reason I edited the app because it was turning into a mass shitpost because of how sloppy I made it at first because for whatever reason I thought to myself "let's make this simple af" not thinking that from simple it turned out to be actual garbage(even the name of the app sounds like a shit post) so made the edit to get actual feed back and for it to be taken seriously.

With the knowledge I have staffing in PH and by looking at how others deal with it I was interested in giving the extra hand to help out.

Tbh I would get it if it doesn't get higher consideration with how sloppy it was but by editing it I wanted make it known that I am serious about it.

[Salty]

Most importantly, overlooking the testimony from people that work with Wilfry on a daily basis is silly.

I'd be happy to answer more questions about Wilfry's ability here or in DMs if anyone has any additional concerns.
+1

You just brought up another one of my most disliked reasons for denying apps: burnout.

The first bit (about testimony from people that work with Wilfry) is the only part of several people's perspective that I strongly disagree with, and I'll explain why now that I've had time to think about how to word this.

Before I get to that, let me talk about your burnout comment. We're not really seeing eye to eye on this and I initially didn't want to post because I  didn't want to turn this thread into some sort of argument, but I think you and I respect each other enough to where you're not going to take what I'm saying as personal attacks.


-The reason why I brought up burnout is because of my first point of if there's a lack of respect, people flame more. When you're flamed more, you have less motivation to get on and interact, which leads to burnout. I am not saying that I think Wilfry would be burned out immediately, I was saying he might experience a bit of it if he's not more well-known. Yes, I am fully aware that PH staff get flamed a shit ton, I have been on and seen it first hand. It's quite similar to TTT if not worse due to the strict rules PH has around micspam. Discord Staff can get pretty intense at times (it's what made me resign the first time I was staff.) so that's why I was bringing that up.


-You and several others are basing your entire perspective of whether Wilfry would be good based on his staffing on Prop Hunt. Forgive me if I sound like an asshole, but if quite literally anyone else who had similar behavior to Wilfry on Discord applied for this position, not a single one of you would support it. Discord is a separate entity from the other servers. Sure, you have seen Wilfry staff seriously before, but I've never seen that. When I have been on, Wilfry does joke commands a lot. I'll say it again: if anyone else ever applied with that, they wouldn't even be considered. 

Does that mean that I think he's bad staff? No, because I've never had an opportunity seen him staff seriously, I cannot say as to whether or not he is good at staffing. That is one of the two reasons why I HAVE A LACK OF TRUST AND UNCERTAINTY.


-You've addressed all the minor concerns I've had except for the one major one I said, and that was being an incident that happened a few weeks ago on TTT where Wilfry joined TTT and trolled for approximately five minutes, then proceeded to leave. That's what I was talking about in my initial post, and it seems that has been ignored entirely.


Unfortunately, I don't have video evidence of this. If I did, I wouldn't have waited a day to think about how to discuss this. The person who experienced this (a higher ranked TTT staff member that shall remain unnamed) is someone I trust would not lie to slander on someone's name. 

Given that this occurred in a part of the community that I am heavily engaged with, I find it hard to trust this person with staff at the time. If I were to get on PH, cause issues, and then post a TTT Moderator app 3 weeks after doing that, I can say without a doubt that you all would be ready to present a case on that thread about how I was not a good community member and caused issues, and should not be in a position that can ban people. The argument that "we should accept him because he's good staff on one server" is one I hate more than using burnout. These are separate entities; Discord is not a secondary staff role. How you staff on one server doesn't mean you're trusted to staff everywhere. That's like saying I can be PH Trusted because I'm TTT Test Moderator.  It just sounds ridiculous and shows more of a case of bias.

We aren't 4 separate servers, we're one community, and the Discord is what mainly makes us a community. 


If this makes me an asshole, so be it. Actions speak louder than words, and the actions I've seen from Wilfry do not warrant trust. That is why I am against the idea as of right now, as I have concerns he would do the same sort of jokes in the discord, and would piss off the wrong person unintentionally consequently giving us a headache to deal with.


TL/DR: I don't trust Wilfry due to his behavior on Discord and the TTT incident is concerning.

I have nothing else to add to this thread other that I do think Wilfry could earn my trust in due time. I don't think Wilfry is a bad person by any means; he wouldn't be on the PH staff team if he was. Just would rather be honest with the community.

[dong]

The only thing I’d like to present/ask is why you got on TTT a few weeks ago and proceeded to troll for a couple minutes before disconnecting? It left me very confused lol and I’d like to assume that it was just a one off thing. As for your ability to staff I have no idea, but based off of what I’ve heard I think you’d be a good fit for discord staff in the future. I just can’t support this app because of how recent the ttt thing was.

[Wilfry]

1.  If burnout was an issue then I would have resign PH staff and never would have applied for Tmod let alone be applying for Discord Helper.

2.  Yes I do use joke commands one other staff members I know or friends(unless I need to use a real command on them).  If the player tells me to not use x command as a joke with them then I stop but if we are having fun then we are having fun theres straight up no issue with that.  Like when I type to ban Salty like 2 days ago but did it wrong on purpose so a ban did not actually go through.  My ban requests and other regular players can tell you how I actually use my commands in the case where its actually a punishment.

3.  The only TTT incident I can think of is when some player was screaming their lungs out and so I was impersonating them(not the screaming, just what they were saying) and later on they mention they did not wanted me to impersonate them so I stop.  Honestly is this is not the actual incident then I would like to know what was it I actually did.

Edit: since I forgot to answer to Salty mentioning about the 98% shitpost on Discord and 2% discussion.

Honestly I do not get this because when theres an issue like "how do I fix this" or "how do I do x report" and "I need help with this in server" then I do help with that but if I would just use Discord for "discussions" or to answer "FAQ" then my total number of messages on Discord would much less than half of what it is right now.

Discord is a platform for gamers to talk, why would I not do that?

---

So after a discussion

I will confirm that the trolling incident is true.  Not micspam or at least not mass(if I completely recall) but it was basically lightly toxic I would say the least.  I'd say it was like under a month when it happen.

Was not something were I actually wanted to cause issues but it was something were I wanted to troll because of the lols

[Salty]

Bump

---

Discord is a platform for gamers to talk, why would I not do that?

Sorry, I did not see this before bumping. Wilfry and I discussed this in private, and I have since removed the comment in question from my post.

[chelllman]

I'll change my vote to +0/+1.  Wilfry is a quick learner so I'm sure this will be a one-off event.  Maybe another month of waiting won't hurt.  However, I think Wilfry would do a fine job as a discord helper now.

I would like to know if what Wilfry did on the TTT server would rise to the level of receiving a warning.  If it does, then the point brought up matters in my eyes.  If it doesn't, then this seems to just be a minor criticism.  It clearly wasn't a huge issue because if it was it would have been brought to the PH mods attention sooner.

I'd also like to say something here (since there really isn't a better place to say it).  This also should not be considered a defense for Wilfry since it should be applied to all servers.

If you have a problem with the behavior of a staff member of any of the communities, please bring it to the attention of the admins (or mods if there are no admins) when the problem occurs.  I'd like to be able to nip problems in the bud when they happen rather than have them dropped weeks later after memories get fuzzy or evidence is routinely deleted.

This also avoids the problem where complaints are dropped on applications and it's the first time the admins/mods of one of the communities are hearing of it.

I'll also address somethings in private with Jammin/Les.

[Wilfry]

Tbh I never thought making a dumb voice would get me in much trouble, with how I seen others in TTT(the loud af mics and soundboard) no warns nor gags a lot of times why would an annoying voice be bad?  But I understand and will learn from it