[Salty]

I'd rather have every warning count than people collect 85 warns for slurs and nothing be done about it; place is at a much better state than when I joined in 2020. TTT is fortunate to have such high quality high ranking staff now. A lot of the trash has either gone either inactive or resigned so the quality has improved drastically.


As for the suggestion to permamute fanta, I think that's a bit extreme. Perhaps if that were to continue after the week ban you could consider a permanent mute, but for now I think a 1 week ban is fine. We don't immediately jump to a permanent ban for racism, so why do that for transphobia? They're both equally disgusting acts (especially if it's unironic), but permanently banning off it ESPECIALLY if they don't have any previous bans or a records against them is just asinine. 


You can downvote me all you like, but I personally think that notion to try and up it to a perma immediately is just a little overdramatic.

[RussEfarmer]

Despite the punishment being too light, I still think that Bryan has created a great foundation to build on and has at least shown that harassment is being taken more seriously than before. If the system is altered with input from the people actually experiencing the harassment, I think it’s capable of significantly improving the environment of the server.

This new warning system is like 10x better than anything we used to use, big win there

[reinaberg]

As for the suggestion to permamute fanta, I think that's a bit extreme. Perhaps if that were to continue after the week ban you could consider a permanent mute, but for now I think a 1 week ban is fine.

That’s exactly why staff needs input from people within the demographic targeted by that harassment. It’s easy to say something isn’t that bad when you aren’t affected by it on a regular basis. Anti-harassment rules are in place to protect those affected by the harassment, not the people who think they know the severity of the situation better than them. I won’t even pretend I’m able to accurately gauge how severe harassment on the basis of a trans or non-binary person’s gender identity can be, but at the very least I can understand the fact that there should be no tolerance for it. 

In the end, doesn’t matter what either of us thinks. What matters is how Kaiwan and other members of the dinks community who have actually experienced this harassment feel about these comments.

---

You can downvote me all you like, but I personally think that notion to try and up it to a perma [mute] immediately is just a little overdramatic.

yikes

[coco]

As for the suggestion to permamute fanta, I think that's a bit extreme. Perhaps if that were to continue after the week ban you could consider a permanent mute, but for now I think a 1 week ban is fine.

That’s exactly why staff needs input from people within the demographic targeted by that harassment. It’s easy to say something isn’t that bad when you aren’t affected by it on a regular basis. Anti-harassment rules are in place to protect those affected by the harassment, not the people who think they know the severity of the situation better than them. I won’t even pretend I’m able to accurately gauge how severe harassment on the basis of a trans or non-binary person’s gender identity can be, but at the very least I can understand the fact that there should be no tolerance for it. 

In the end, doesn’t matter what either of us thinks. What matters is how Kaiwan and other members of the dinks community who have actually experienced this harassment feel about these comments.

---

You can downvote me all you like, but I personally think that notion to try and up it to a perma immediately is just a little overdramatic.

yikes

I'm not sure about this. I definitely think the victims of these harassment situations should be included in the conversation of punishment, but overall I think it should be left up to the admins who can look at it from a place of unbias. If we leave the punishments up to the victims, they will be extremely severe 9 out of 10 times. Can you imagine if we let victims of RDM decide how many slays their RDMer receives, for example. I'm not going to speak for victims of transphobia or homophobia for obvious reasons, but I've been sexually harassed on the server plenty of times (as I'm sure most other women on the server have) and while I think the current guideline punishments for that are fair, I'm not going to say the decision should be up to me because obviously I'm biased.

Overall, there should definitely consequences for any type of harassment on the server, I just think the current way we have of punishing it is adequately fair.

[Dildo Shwaggins]

I'd rather have every warning count than people collect 85 warns for slurs and nothing be done about it; place is at a much better state than when I joined in 2020. TTT is fortunate to have such high quality high ranking staff now. A lot of the trash has either gone either inactive or resigned so the quality has improved drastically.


As for the suggestion to permamute fanta, I think that's a bit extreme. Perhaps if that were to continue after the week ban you could consider a permanent mute, but for now I think a 1 week ban is fine. We don't immediately jump to a permanent ban for racism, so why do that for transphobia? They're both equally disgusting acts (especially if it's unironic), but permanently banning off it ESPECIALLY if they don't have any previous bans or a records against them is just asinine. 


You can downvote me all you like, but I personally think that notion to try and up it to a perma immediately is just a little overdramatic.

Perma would be overdramatic for something like random trolling with slurs, sure. Targeted sexual and transphobic harassment to an individual (which now was also done on the forums in now deleted posts from Fanta especially while knowingly and intentionally doing it (which was also made clear by the screenshots) has no place in this community period and should carry a considerably stronger  punishment on first offense  IMO

[Vrilly， ze floofy derg uwu]

As for the suggestion to permamute fanta, I think that's a bit extreme. Perhaps if that were to continue after the week ban you could consider a permanent mute, but for now I think a 1 week ban is fine. We don't immediately jump to a permanent ban for racism, so why do that for transphobia? They're both equally disgusting acts (especially if it's unironic), but permanently banning off it ESPECIALLY if they don't have any previous bans or a records against them is just asinine. 

I agree on the notion of that perma is too quick for this incident by today's moderation guidelines and what the community overall thinks about this. But I do feel that a 1-7day van is just too short for a personal attack like what happened here. I personally feel like for this type of harrasement 2week to 1 month is warranted with potential early release through an unban request with honest apologies and incentive to improve theirselves.

Fanta getting banned for a week just feels like me he's going to rejoin next week, doesn't have to do any unban request or explain/apologize theirselves and will just continue their behaviour like before.

Also regarding the parallel you draw with racism, I feel like racism is more like insulting people because they belong to a group/race/etc. Like shouting kill all furries on the server or hating me because I'm a furry. These kind of attacks are not as personal as someone just straightly attacking you for gender identity and often used in a less serious context.
Trying to invalidate who you are however with misgendering and attacks in PM/Public, that's a way harsher personal attack and hits way harder for the person it's aimed at.

[Salty]

Perma would be overdramatic for something like random trolling with slurs, sure. Targeted sexual and transphobic harassment to an individual (which now was also done on the forums in now deleted posts from Fanta especially while knowingly and intentionally doing it (which was also made clear by the screenshots) has no place in this community period and should carry a considerably stronger  punishment on first offense  IMO

I was not made aware that there were deleted forum posts. See, that puts some things in perspective and then THAT should warrant an extended ban perhaps.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, Mr. Shwaggins. Appreciate your professionalism with your response as well!

---

Also regarding the parallel you draw with racism, I feel like racism is more like insulting people because they belong to a group/race/etc. Like shouting kill all furries on the server or hating me because I'm a furry. These kind of attacks are not as personal as someone just straightly attacking you for gender identity and often used in a less serious context.
Trying to invalidate who you are however with misgendering and attacks in PM/Public, that's a way harsher personal attack and hits way harder for the person it's aimed at.

Wouldn't that be the same type of invalidation, considering that both of those are identities? That doesn't make much sense to me. Could you reword this perhaps?

[reinaberg]

-snip-

I'm not sure about this. I definitely think the victims of these harassment situations should be included in the conversation of punishment, but overall I think it should be left up to the admins who can look at it from a place of unbias. 

I also believe they should be able to give input regarding the severity of the situation. I don’t think I said they should decide what the punishment is, but if I did then I probably just fucked up my wording, sorry.

[Dildo Shwaggins]

As for the suggestion to permamute fanta, I think that's a bit extreme. Perhaps if that were to continue after the week ban you could consider a permanent mute, but for now I think a 1 week ban is fine.

That’s exactly why staff needs input from people within the demographic targeted by that harassment. It’s easy to say something isn’t that bad when you aren’t affected by it on a regular basis. Anti-harassment rules are in place to protect those affected by the harassment, not the people who think they know the severity of the situation better than them. I won’t even pretend I’m able to accurately gauge how severe harassment on the basis of a trans or non-binary person’s gender identity can be, but at the very least I can understand the fact that there should be no tolerance for it. 

In the end, doesn’t matter what either of us thinks. What matters is how Kaiwan and other members of the dinks community who have actually experienced this harassment feel about these comments.

---

You can downvote me all you like, but I personally think that notion to try and up it to a perma immediately is just a little overdramatic.

yikes

I'm not sure about this. I definitely think the victims of these harassment situations should be included in the conversation of punishment, but overall I think it should be left up to the admins who can look at it from a place of unbias. If we leave the punishments up to the victims, they will be extremely severe 9 out of 10 times. Can you imagine if we let victims of RDM decide how many slays their RDMer receives, for example. I'm not going to speak for victims of transphobia or homophobia for obvious reasons, but I've been sexually harassed on the server plenty of times (as I'm sure most other women on the server have) and while I think the current guideline punishments for that are fair, I'm not going to say the decision should be up to me because obviously I'm biased.

Overall, there should definitely consequences for any type of harassment on the server, I just think the current way we have of punishing it is adequately fair.

I wouldn’t be opposed to a “jail style” system in targeted cases where the harasser is perma’d to begins with and the victim can have input into whether a perma should stand or they’re willing to cut some slack. Ultimately still admin decision but it can gauge what the victim really thought on their end of the situation and the instigator of it

[Vrilly， ze floofy derg uwu]

Also regarding the parallel you draw with racism, I feel like racism is more like insulting people because they belong to a group/race/etc. Like shouting kill all furries on the server or hating me because I'm a furry. These kind of attacks are not as personal as someone just straightly attacking you for gender identity and often used in a less serious context.
Trying to invalidate who you are however with misgendering and attacks in PM/Public, that's a way harsher personal attack and hits way harder for the person it's aimed at.

Wouldn't that be the same type of invalidation, considering that both of those are identities? That doesn't make much sense to me. Could you reword this perhaps?

It's not too clear, and that's difficult in these kind of discussion. But I'll try to explain my train of thoughts in my best ability

But if someone for examples rdms me and says it's because I'm a furry I'm fine with that. Or when someone slurs against you because you said you're black.
In these cases it's not really to the person, it's just because I'm a furry or I'm black and any other furry would have gotten the same treatment from them

This kind of sexual harrasement however it's not because one is trans, woman. The hate is way more targeted at the person. These interactions really make me feel like Fanta personally hates her and constructs their comments in a way it really hurts and not it's just another transphobe doing a generic comment in bad taste.

It would be like one trying to invalidate me being a furry and say I'm not a furry because I don't have a fursuit.