[alichay]

I’m still waiting for an apology from you

yeah the info i had was incorrect, i trusted someone, and also their evidence matched up. it's a fucked situation, i'm sorry you got incorrectly accused of pedophilia.

the response to everything being proven incorrect being punitive instead of just trying to fix the structural problems that led to this shitshow in the first place, however, made me lose all trust in the ability for the admins to keep players safe. this place is teeming with creeps that the staff will rush to defend without evidence to preserve friendships. disgusting.

This isn't an apology. An apology would say "I'm sorry I accused you of pedophilia" not "I'm sorry you got accused of being one" 

It's sad to see someone leave the staff team who genuinely wants this community to be a safe space but, I can understand the reasons for your departure. Take care of yourself and thank you for your time with the staff team.

fair.

weird that you're asking for one though, since you consider this thread one. (also you think you're sneaky with the they/them. i don't like you.)

You think I'm being sneaky but I'm using the word "their" to imply multiple people, not someone's gender. Stop making assumptions. Also, I do consider this an apology since you are reluctant to offer a REAL one for being wrong. My words of taking care though are genuine and wish you the best.

interesting that you say resignation and apology, then, singular words. it doesn't really matter, but i just wanted to point it out because i know the staff team has a history of "interesting" opinions :)

[chelllman]

-snip-

the response to everything being proven incorrect being punitive instead of just trying to fix the structural problems that led to this shitshow in the first place, however, made me lose all trust in the ability for the admins to keep players safe. this place is teeming with creeps that the staff will rush to defend without evidence to preserve friendships. disgusting.

For clarification, what do you mean by "this place is teeming with creeps that the staff will rush to defend without evidence to preserve friendships"?
Particularly the "defend without evidence" part?

Perhaps it's just the way you phrased it, but it reads like you want the staff to defend someone only when evidence is presented of them not being a creep?
It's impossible to prove a negative. The burden of proof is always on the accuser, and proving someone isn't a creep is impossible I think.

However, proving someone is a creep is definitely possible with evidence.

No other comments about everything else.

[Battons]

While I’ve seen and processed your apology, I do not accept it. I wish you the best with wherever you end up.

[茶 Tea]

-snip-

the response to everything being proven incorrect being punitive instead of just trying to fix the structural problems that led to this shitshow in the first place, however, made me lose all trust in the ability for the admins to keep players safe. this place is teeming with creeps that the staff will rush to defend without evidence to preserve friendships. disgusting.

For clarification, what do you mean by "this place is teeming with creeps that the staff will rush to defend without evidence to preserve friendships"?
Particularly the "defend without evidence" part?

Perhaps it's just the way you phrased it, but it reads like you want the staff to defend someone only when evidence is presented of them not being a creep?
It's impossible to prove a negative. The burden of proof is always on the accuser, and proving someone isn't a creep is impossible I think.

However, proving someone is a creep is definitely possible with evidence.

No other comments about everything else.

this server is teeming with creeps and many staff members refuse to do so much as ask them to stop

[chelllman]

chelllman

this server is teeming with creeps and many staff members refuse to do so much as ask them to stop

That's not in doubt, I'm asking for clarification about a specific part of their response.

[alichay]

-snip-

the response to everything being proven incorrect being punitive instead of just trying to fix the structural problems that led to this shitshow in the first place, however, made me lose all trust in the ability for the admins to keep players safe. this place is teeming with creeps that the staff will rush to defend without evidence to preserve friendships. disgusting.

For clarification, what do you mean by "this place is teeming with creeps that the staff will rush to defend without evidence to preserve friendships"?
Particularly the "defend without evidence" part?

Perhaps it's just the way you phrased it, but it reads like you want the staff to defend someone only when evidence is presented of them not being a creep?
It's impossible to prove a negative. The burden of proof is always on the accuser, and proving someone isn't a creep is impossible I think.

However, proving someone is a creep is definitely possible with evidence.

No other comments about everything else.

i meant two things.

one: staff brushes the actions of their friends under the rug. there are people in this community that make women extremely uncomfortable by harassing them, who never see consequences because they're friends with staff.
two: battons was eventually proven innocent, but before that people had already begun to treat him as innocent and demonize anyone accusing him. i don't trust that a genuine accusation would be taken seriously (since it had been ignored by icey), nor do i trust that this is a safe place for victims because of the mob mentality here that jumps at the throat of anyone who dares to accuse their friends.

there are some staff doing good work. not a lot, but some. i respect them, but i also feel so bad for the sisyphean task ahead of them

[bryanbrr]

yeah the info i had was incorrect, i trusted someone, and also their evidence matched up. it's a fucked situation, i'm sorry you got incorrectly accused of pedophilia.

the response to everything being proven incorrect being punitive instead of just trying to fix the structural problems that led to this shitshow in the first place, however, made me lose all trust in the ability for the admins to keep players safe. this place is teeming with creeps that the staff will rush to defend without evidence to preserve friendships. disgusting.

This isn't an apology. An apology would say "I'm sorry I accused you of pedophilia" not "I'm sorry you got accused of being one" 

It's sad to see someone leave the staff team who genuinely wants this community to be a safe space but, I can understand the reasons for your departure. Take care of yourself and thank you for your time with the staff team.

fair.

weird that you're asking for one though, since you consider this thread one. (also you think you're sneaky with the they/them. i don't like you.)

You think I'm being sneaky but I'm using the word "their" to imply multiple people, not someone's gender. Stop making assumptions. Also, I do consider this an apology since you are reluctant to offer a REAL one for being wrong. My words of taking care though are genuine and wish you the best.

interesting that you say resignation and apology, then, singular words. it doesn't really matter, but i just wanted to point it out because i know the staff team has a history of "interesting" opinions :)

LOL the sentence "their resignations is their apologies" is the same sentence. Read into it however, you'd like to read into it. I stated my intentions and stand on it. It's a good thing you are standing up for what you believe by leaving the staff team. It shows that you have rooted values that you believe are being challenged and wish to not be part of it. I could never fault someone for that. To make sure its stated a third time, I truly wish you the best.

[slater]

while i do disagree with certain points made from you, i do believe your intentions are in good will to make the community better. i’ve never interacted with you much, but hopefully your resignation gives you freedom and everything goes well for you.

[chelllman]

[quote pid="156967" dateline="1713042923"]

i meant two things.

one: staff brushes the actions of their friends under the rug. there are people in this community that make women extremely uncomfortable by harassing them, who never see consequences because they're friends with staff.
two: battons was eventually proven innocent, but before that people had already begun to treat him as innocent and demonize anyone accusing him. i don't trust that a genuine accusation would be taken seriously (since it had been ignored by icey), nor do i trust that this is a safe place for victims because of the mob mentality here that jumps at the throat of anyone who dares to accuse their friends.

there are some staff doing good work. not a lot, but some. i respect them, but i also feel so bad for the sisyphean task ahead of them
[/quote]

Thank you for your quick clarification!

I do think that staffing bias is a problem, and incredibly difficult to resolve.

With Battons, the whole situation should have been much more heavily moderated. I do believe in innocent until proven guilty, something that is paramount to justice in my opinion.  However, while it should have been presumption of innocence until more evidence about the situation was provided, it should not have been allowed to devolve into people harassing each other. If someone from the admin team ignored the accusations without investigating, then that's a problem.


What I will say is that I wish that staff from other servers had adopted the very harsh guidelines that PH has for racism, sexism, etc. I know that PH got a lot of shit such as being called a "daycare", but people who were racist or sexist were quickly removed from the PH community with haste. While the guidelines PH as are really strict, I do feel that it went a long way to protecting the players on the server. I really do hope the current staff team does a serious big think about the current guidelines, and perhaps putting in protocols for how friends can moderate friends.

[YourMateMurph]

:ToadWave: