Killing someone for killing an inno

**The Dutch Problem** · 09-28-2018, 11:44 AM

But U may be lieng twat U MUST DIE CUZ I THINK U T

**matt_st3 (Strongrule)** · 09-28-2018, 11:54 AM

Deus Vult I guess

**Stingray** · (This post was last modified: 09-28-2018, 12:15 PM by Stingray.)

(09-28-2018, 11:41 AM)matt_st3 (Strongrule) Wrote: I still miss the point where defending yourself from and rdmr is Proof you are a T. Because you need Proof someone is a T to kill them, be it say a knife, they sniped someone not kosd. Again DNA is a thing of itself. But this “oh you might could possibly maybe be a T because you killed an Inno trying to kill you” is not proof to their identity or intent

If I try to kill jimbo but he kills me first, how does that prove he is a T

Your forgeting the rule killing an inno is kos. Rdm is not meant to happen and all the rules prevent it. That being said the only logical reason to try to kill someone is if you had a reason to. So if you try to kill jimbo but jimbo kills you first the way hes kosable is because you were supposed to have had a reason to try to kill him. If you have to defend yourself against an actual rdmer you die or win and report them for it. I feel the rule of unless its rdm needs to apply to it being non-slayable because after round is the only time you can truly know if it was rdm. You should be able to defend yourself against anyone that doesnt believe you as well as anyone that rdms you but i dont see how you can expect everyone to be forced to believe your defending yourself when its unprovable. This is why i think defending yourself should be kosable if not proven and non slayable. This rule is for instances where you are falsely kosed or something along those lines and you have to defend yourself against all innos so that you dont get pinned with mass cuz you should be able to defend yourself which is where the rule came from to begin with.
This rule when implemented was not meant to be used like this.

(09-28-2018, 11:44 AM)King Tiger Ace Fasda22 Wrote: But U may be lieng twat U MUST DIE CUZ I THINK U T

Fuck what is it like to be such a fuckwad? This is about breaking the basis of multiple other rules AND it breaks main ttt rule that everything needs proof if someone decides to believe the excuse that should be their own call. You cannot force players to have to believe you kill an inno with reason when THERE SHOULD BE ZERO REASON TO KILL AN INNO UNLESS YOUR T ITS HOW THE RULES WORK IF AN INNO GETS RDMED SOMEONE BROKE A RULE AND GET SLAIN

**The Dutch Problem** · Resigned Staff since 03-26-2018.

You say we have that rule, while we, Matt and me in particular have been saying we dont have that. Not to mention I'm here defending the man who just successfully defended himself and now you want to punish his effort with death. With that rule I dont want to return fire because if hes innocent I'll die anyway so might as well not bother.

We've had the Self-Defense thing for as long as I can remember and I see absolutely no reason other then your reasoning, wich I do not agree with although I've made that clear. There should be a reason to kill RDM'ing pieces of shit no matter if they're a Detective or Innocent, you killed a threat to yourself and/or to others. You did your job as an Innocent, by killing what appeared to be a Traitor. Lets break it down shall we. Traitors are there to kill but because they're outnumbered they need to use deception and a plethedra of T weapons to disable the Innocent team. The Innocents need to find out who the Traitors are and eliminate them.

Now, with what you say in place what will happen.
Scenario 1:
Innocent man kills another innocent man attacking him, with clear in his mind the attacker is a Traitor, therefore he is clearly doing his job as an innocent. Now that man will be punished for doing his job as an Innocent.

Scenario 2:
A battle occurs between a Traitor and an Innocent, another Innocent walks in on the gunfight knowing absolutely not who started it or the reasoning of the fight. Neither of the fighting two calls each other out. The Traitor manages to win the fight however with audience he opts to do his job in a scenario he knows he's not gonna win and he's going to lie. Too bad for him, fuck him. Punished for attempting to deceive the other innocent.

Not very fair for the Innocent in scenario 1 is it, nor does it enhance gameplay for the traitor in scenario 2.

On a second note, while I may have had a few annotations that can be interpreted as an insult I have not done so in such a hostile manner, I find it rather appauling that you're going out of your way to insult an induvidual with a conflicting opinion on a thread. Damn man, calm the hell down. I will keep advocating to keep what we have and I will respond with what I gather from your statements adding the things I believe to be a bad addition or something I wholeheartedly disagree with. If you dont like that, then my god get off the internet, please.

**Stingray** · (This post was last modified: 09-28-2018, 02:41 PM by Stingray.)

(09-28-2018, 12:40 PM)King Tiger Ace Fasda22 Wrote: You say we have that rule, while we, Matt and me in particular have been saying we dont have that. Not to mention I'm here defending the man who just successfully defended himself and now you want to punish his effort with death. With that rule I dont want to return fire because if hes innocent I'll die anyway so might as well not bother.

We've had the Self-Defense thing for as long as I can remember and I see absolutely no reason other then your reasoning, wich I do not agree with although I've made that clear. There should be a reason to kill RDM'ing pieces of shit no matter if they're a Detective or Innocent, you killed a threat to yourself and/or to others. You did your job as an Innocent, by killing what appeared to be a Traitor. Lets break it down shall we. Traitors are there to kill but because they're outnumbered they need to use deception and a plethedra of T weapons to disable the Innocent team. The Innocents need to find out who the Traitors are and eliminate them.

Now, with what you say in place what will happen.
Scenario 1:
Innocent man kills another innocent man attacking him, with clear in his mind the attacker is a Traitor, therefore he is clearly doing his job as an innocent. Now that man will be punished for doing his job as an Innocent.

Scenario 2:
A battle occurs between a Traitor and an Innocent, another Innocent walks in on the gunfight knowing absolutely not who started it or the reasoning of the fight. Neither of the fighting two calls each other out. The Traitor manages to win the fight however with audience he opts to do his job in a scenario he knows he's not gonna win and he's going to lie. Too bad for him, fuck him. Punished for attempting to deceive the other innocent.

Not very fair for the Innocent in scenario 1 is it, nor does it enhance gameplay for the traitor in scenario 2.

On a second note, while I may have had a few annotations that can be interpreted as an insult I have not done so in such a hostile manner, I find it rather appauling that you're going out of your way to insult an induvidual with a conflicting opinion on a thread. Damn man, calm the hell down. I will keep advocating to keep what we have and I will respond with what I gather from your statements adding the things I believe to be a bad addition or something I wholeheartedly disagree with. If you dont like that, then my god get off the internet, please.

-.- wooooooooooooow "Damaging Innocents for a reason not stated above 9" "1. Unless the Detective or Innocent was RDMing" Im sorry i was wrong they are both disclaimers but yes its a rule. On every other ttt server i have ever played on simply killing an inno is kos because ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN UNLESS YOUR T. Scenario 2 you had to be so specific to make it follow this and it proves my point that it hardly helps to begin with SOMEONE IS GOING TO KOS BOTH WILL BE KILLED. This rule breaks the game it simply doesnt work. If you were able to prove that its rdm it would work. I have people kill me all the time as t when i was killing someone for legitimate reason half the time before the body is ided and no one properly handles it properly when i report it it gets brushed over. Due to the handleing of my reports on these issues and other staff saying its my own fault, im bad, or i just got caught i never knew that this was the way this rule was being inturpreted and im sure others feel the same way. After now learning about this rule that its NOT properly explained in the motd and due to how much ive been getting rdmed by many "good players" including staff just for shooting claiming its tbaiting even when the only hear it and its at a wall. Ive been rdmed by "good players" taking shortcuts and bending the rules alot lately. I loved this server and its community i have met my best online friends on this server but im done and i probably wont be coming back to the server. Thanks for the the 4 years dinks this server may very well have saved my life bye~

**GAMER** · 09-28-2018, 02:44 PM

I think the best solution to this is to just not report people and get over it. Heart

~~lacer~~ · 09-28-2018, 03:32 PM

(09-28-2018, 02:44 PM)DolphinJazz Wrote: I think the best solution to this is to just not report people and get over it.

or mass rdm

**Cosmic Tortoise** · 09-28-2018, 04:33 PM

If we left the rule to be "Killing an Innocent is KOS", rounds would last 30 seconds following the first death of an innocent, with a massive chaotic chain of rdm and traitors killing innocents, or even just traitors waiting in the shadows as the innocents do all the work for them.

**matt_st3 (Strongrule)** · 09-28-2018, 05:24 PM

Either way the one guy really defending the idea Mass RDMd and left soooooooo anyone else want to talk

**Christian** · (This post was last modified: 09-28-2018, 07:06 PM by Christian.)

I stand by what I said, even if the player specifies it was in self defense I feel the player that Attempted RDM should be held responsible and not the Detective tbh. A player could specify the person that they killed was an RDMer, but other players will still call the Detective to the body and the Detective may not be thinking about it. Yeah, the detective should be paying attention and so should the players that may be calling to the body, but I think that's just adding unessecary slays to the Detective for playing the game. Remember that the server population is 32 players, and that things get really hectic.

Making a player sit out for potentially over 10 minutes for playing the role really seems unnecessary to me, even if he needs to pay attention better. Like I said in my previous post, I would just report the person who attempted to kill me. Slaying the Detective for following Inno DNA without having no proof / reason to believe the player seems pretty dumb to me. Yes I know High Suspicion is a thing, but that I have to wait / avoid a player for a near 5 minutes. And with brew and shotguns being a thing, I can easily be out-runned by the Traitors.

This rule imo just makes it easier for Traitors to win, and punishes people for playing the game how it's supposed to be played. I really think this rule needs to be changed, even if the person I somewhat agree with just Mass'd and got Perma'd.