[EpicGuy]

In all my years, I’ve never seen this much hoopla over the jet pack. Saying that people are going to leave the community over a jet pack is one of the most outlandish things I’ve heard, especially considering there’s other, more pressing issues that would probably drive people to leave (like trash maps and other garbage addons).

As others have said, the jet pack negates some fall damage. As we know, the fall damage and ladders in this engine are absolutely ridiculous. Secondly, to call the jet pack “nooby” is a bit much. If it gives an advantage, I’m going to use it. Especially considering some jumps aren’t possible without it. Which leads to the exploit part of the jet pack.



If there are any alternatives to the jet pack, let’s test them out and implement them. I’m not opposed to a better option. Until then, I’m not going to play on a server that has trash single jump, where I can barely crouch jump onto a ledge.

Almost everything you just  stated is either false information or outlandishly stupid. "too call the jet pack "nooby" is a bit much. If it gives an advantage, I'm going too use it"    That's why its called an "unfair advantage".



"The jet pack does allow for people’s heads to clip through the ceiling. But they don’t stay up there forever. And if they’re in the ceiling and you can’t shoot their head, shoot their body. To act like you’re all CS:GO pros and only aim for headshots is ridiculous too. Of course some of you are aiming for headshots, I do too, but the majority of you limp wrists are aiming at the chest and lower. Also jumping affects your accuracy. If you die from someone in the air (and they’re not using the shotgun), you’re a baddie."    The hitboxes in garrys mod are already horrendous enough, too imply that people should just "shoot the body" too make up for the person spazzin away with his jetpack is funny. Headshot's are the majority of my kills so when there's someone who's bhopping and also using the jetpack, it gives them complete advantage over me, so if they have advantage over me, they most defintely have a large advantage over the regular player. Jumping does not effect your accuracy whatsoever so that's just false news.


"If there are any alternatives to the jet pack, let’s test them out and implement them. I’m not opposed to a better option. Until then, I’m not going to play on a server that has trash single jump, where I can barely crouch jump onto a ledge."           You mean like every single valve game/server since 1999? Yikes, and your calling other people baddies...



Only thing you mention'd that diden't hurt my brain was the priority of the jetpack, I defintely would like to see a bunch of the trash maps (trash being the FPS killer maps, such as innocent motel earlier version) removed first, and the crappy, unused t/d weaps.

Hi Snak. Thanks for your response. 

1. Would you consider the weapons in premium crates an unfair advantage to those who are fortunate enough to have enough points to buy the weapon, or if the probability allows them to get the weapon? Having the ability to purchase or receive a special weapon is unfair to those who haven’t been plauomg for as long a time as us.

2. As Laced told me before you, jumping does not affect accuracy. My sincerest apologies for spreading misinformation, much like the mainstream media of today. And if you can’t hit someone because they’re bunny hopping around like a...well bunny, you should report them for exploiting, whether or not they have a jet pack or not. Because that’s an unfair advantage to you. And if you can’t get a headshot on someone bunny hopping, then surely the other carpal tunnel-ridden, trash players can’t either. Yes, the hit boxes are quite garbage. But to suggest not shooting someone’s visible chest when it’s present and their head is not, is quite silly.

3. Yes, other Valve games only have single jump. Much like other games not developed by Valve. Do you know what those other games have though? Objects that are at such a height that allow them be jumped over.

Good conversation though. Looking forward to continuing it.

---

Also jumping affects your accuracy. If you die from someone in the air (and they’re not using the shotgun), you’re a baddie.

This isn't CS:GO. Or even CS:S. Jumping in TTT on GMod does not affect your accuracy whatsoever. It's the reason that I, and so many others, complain about spamming crouch jump, because they can't be hit while they can hit us all day long.

Sorry for the misinformation, pal. I should have my shins bashed in by Razor scooters for the foreseeable future.

[snak]

In all my years, I’ve never seen this much hoopla over the jet pack. Saying that people are going to leave the community over a jet pack is one of the most outlandish things I’ve heard, especially considering there’s other, more pressing issues that would probably drive people to leave (like trash maps and other garbage addons).

As others have said, the jet pack negates some fall damage. As we know, the fall damage and ladders in this engine are absolutely ridiculous. Secondly, to call the jet pack “nooby” is a bit much. If it gives an advantage, I’m going to use it. Especially considering some jumps aren’t possible without it. Which leads to the exploit part of the jet pack.



If there are any alternatives to the jet pack, let’s test them out and implement them. I’m not opposed to a better option. Until then, I’m not going to play on a server that has trash single jump, where I can barely crouch jump onto a ledge.

Almost everything you just  stated is either false information or outlandishly stupid. "too call the jet pack "nooby" is a bit much. If it gives an advantage, I'm going too use it"    That's why its called an "unfair advantage".



"The jet pack does allow for people’s heads to clip through the ceiling. But they don’t stay up there forever. And if they’re in the ceiling and you can’t shoot their head, shoot their body. To act like you’re all CS:GO pros and only aim for headshots is ridiculous too. Of course some of you are aiming for headshots, I do too, but the majority of you limp wrists are aiming at the chest and lower. Also jumping affects your accuracy. If you die from someone in the air (and they’re not using the shotgun), you’re a baddie."    The hitboxes in garrys mod are already horrendous enough, too imply that people should just "shoot the body" too make up for the person spazzin away with his jetpack is funny. Headshot's are the majority of my kills so when there's someone who's bhopping and also using the jetpack, it gives them complete advantage over me, so if they have advantage over me, they most defintely have a large advantage over the regular player. Jumping does not effect your accuracy whatsoever so that's just false news.


"If there are any alternatives to the jet pack, let’s test them out and implement them. I’m not opposed to a better option. Until then, I’m not going to play on a server that has trash single jump, where I can barely crouch jump onto a ledge."           You mean like every single valve game/server since 1999? Yikes, and your calling other people baddies...



Only thing you mention'd that diden't hurt my brain was the priority of the jetpack, I defintely would like to see a bunch of the trash maps (trash being the FPS killer maps, such as innocent motel earlier version) removed first, and the crappy, unused t/d weaps.

Hi Snak. Thanks for your response. 

1. Would you consider the weapons in premium crates an unfair advantage to those who are fortunate enough to have enough points to buy the weapon, or if the probability allows them to get the weapon? Having the ability to purchase or receive a special weapon is unfair to those who haven’t been plauomg for as long a time as us.

2. As Laced told me before you, jumping does not affect accuracy. My sincerest apologies for spreading misinformation, much like the mainstream media of today. And if you can’t hit someone because they’re bunny hopping around like a...well bunny, you should report them for exploiting, whether or not they have a jet pack or not. Because that’s an unfair advantage to you. And if you can’t get a headshot on someone bunny hopping, then surely the other carpal tunnel-ridden, trash players can’t either. Yes, the hit boxes are quite garbage. But to suggest not shooting someone’s visible chest when it’s present and their head is not, is quite silly.

3. Yes, other Valve games only have single jump. Much like other games not developed by Valve. Do you know what those other games have though? Objects that are at such a height that allow them be jumped over.

Good conversation though. Looking forward to continuing it.

1: While certain weapon's may give a slight advantage over other weapons, they don't mess with the physical gameplay that the jetpack does.

2: I shoulden't be forced to have to take body shots because a certain item is allowing a player to exploit the ability to hide his head.

3: Not sure what you mean  by this, Jumping is easy as hell in this game and every valve game, unless you are talking in particular jumping to unreachable areas, which again is an exploit.

[EpicGuy]

In all my years, I’ve never seen this much hoopla over the jet pack. Saying that people are going to leave the community over a jet pack is one of the most outlandish things I’ve heard, especially considering there’s other, more pressing issues that would probably drive people to leave (like trash maps and other garbage addons).

As others have said, the jet pack negates some fall damage. As we know, the fall damage and ladders in this engine are absolutely ridiculous. Secondly, to call the jet pack “nooby” is a bit much. If it gives an advantage, I’m going to use it. Especially considering some jumps aren’t possible without it. Which leads to the exploit part of the jet pack.



If there are any alternatives to the jet pack, let’s test them out and implement them. I’m not opposed to a better option. Until then, I’m not going to play on a server that has trash single jump, where I can barely crouch jump onto a ledge.

Almost everything you just  stated is either false information or outlandishly stupid. "too call the jet pack "nooby" is a bit much. If it gives an advantage, I'm going too use it"    That's why its called an "unfair advantage".



"The jet pack does allow for people’s heads to clip through the ceiling. But they don’t stay up there forever. And if they’re in the ceiling and you can’t shoot their head, shoot their body. To act like you’re all CS:GO pros and only aim for headshots is ridiculous too. Of course some of you are aiming for headshots, I do too, but the majority of you limp wrists are aiming at the chest and lower. Also jumping affects your accuracy. If you die from someone in the air (and they’re not using the shotgun), you’re a baddie."    The hitboxes in garrys mod are already horrendous enough, too imply that people should just "shoot the body" too make up for the person spazzin away with his jetpack is funny. Headshot's are the majority of my kills so when there's someone who's bhopping and also using the jetpack, it gives them complete advantage over me, so if they have advantage over me, they most defintely have a large advantage over the regular player. Jumping does not effect your accuracy whatsoever so that's just false news.


"If there are any alternatives to the jet pack, let’s test them out and implement them. I’m not opposed to a better option. Until then, I’m not going to play on a server that has trash single jump, where I can barely crouch jump onto a ledge."           You mean like every single valve game/server since 1999? Yikes, and your calling other people baddies...



Only thing you mention'd that diden't hurt my brain was the priority of the jetpack, I defintely would like to see a bunch of the trash maps (trash being the FPS killer maps, such as innocent motel earlier version) removed first, and the crappy, unused t/d weaps.

Hi Snak. Thanks for your response. 

1. Would you consider the weapons in premium crates an unfair advantage to those who are fortunate enough to have enough points to buy the weapon, or if the probability allows them to get the weapon? Having the ability to purchase or receive a special weapon is unfair to those who haven’t been plauomg for as long a time as us.

2. As Laced told me before you, jumping does not affect accuracy. My sincerest apologies for spreading misinformation, much like the mainstream media of today. And if you can’t hit someone because they’re bunny hopping around like a...well bunny, you should report them for exploiting, whether or not they have a jet pack or not. Because that’s an unfair advantage to you. And if you can’t get a headshot on someone bunny hopping, then surely the other carpal tunnel-ridden, trash players can’t either. Yes, the hit boxes are quite garbage. But to suggest not shooting someone’s visible chest when it’s present and their head is not, is quite silly.

3. Yes, other Valve games only have single jump. Much like other games not developed by Valve. Do you know what those other games have though? Objects that are at such a height that allow them be jumped over.

Good conversation though. Looking forward to continuing it.

1: While certain weapon's may give a slight advantage over other weapons, they don't mess with the physical gameplay that the jetpack does.

2: I shoulden't be forced to have to take body shots because a certain item is allowing a player to exploit the ability to hide his head.

3: Not sure what you mean  by this, Jumping is easy as hell in this game and every valve game, unless you are talking in particular jumping to unreachable areas, which again is an exploit.

You know, I thought about what you said and what I said, and looking back at it all, I’m not too sure why I came at you with so much spice. You’re right. You shouldn’t be expected to take body shots because someone’s head is through the ceiling. That’s stupid and game breaking. I guess my original argument was based on me not wanting to see the jet pack go because of the jumping distance/height and the fall damage negation. Like I said earlier, if someone finds a better alternative (which is going to require someone to actually go and look for something better, AND for us to actually implement it) I’ll be happy.

Nice little conversation we had. I’d be down for another some time soon.

[snak]

In all my years, I’ve never seen this much hoopla over the jet pack. Saying that people are going to leave the community over a jet pack is one of the most outlandish things I’ve heard, especially considering there’s other, more pressing issues that would probably drive people to leave (like trash maps and other garbage addons).

As others have said, the jet pack negates some fall damage. As we know, the fall damage and ladders in this engine are absolutely ridiculous. Secondly, to call the jet pack “nooby” is a bit much. If it gives an advantage, I’m going to use it. Especially considering some jumps aren’t possible without it. Which leads to the exploit part of the jet pack.



If there are any alternatives to the jet pack, let’s test them out and implement them. I’m not opposed to a better option. Until then, I’m not going to play on a server that has trash single jump, where I can barely crouch jump onto a ledge.

Almost everything you just  stated is either false information or outlandishly stupid. "too call the jet pack "nooby" is a bit much. If it gives an advantage, I'm going too use it"    That's why its called an "unfair advantage".



"The jet pack does allow for people’s heads to clip through the ceiling. But they don’t stay up there forever. And if they’re in the ceiling and you can’t shoot their head, shoot their body. To act like you’re all CS:GO pros and only aim for headshots is ridiculous too. Of course some of you are aiming for headshots, I do too, but the majority of you limp wrists are aiming at the chest and lower. Also jumping affects your accuracy. If you die from someone in the air (and they’re not using the shotgun), you’re a baddie."    The hitboxes in garrys mod are already horrendous enough, too imply that people should just "shoot the body" too make up for the person spazzin away with his jetpack is funny. Headshot's are the majority of my kills so when there's someone who's bhopping and also using the jetpack, it gives them complete advantage over me, so if they have advantage over me, they most defintely have a large advantage over the regular player. Jumping does not effect your accuracy whatsoever so that's just false news.


"If there are any alternatives to the jet pack, let’s test them out and implement them. I’m not opposed to a better option. Until then, I’m not going to play on a server that has trash single jump, where I can barely crouch jump onto a ledge."           You mean like every single valve game/server since 1999? Yikes, and your calling other people baddies...



Only thing you mention'd that diden't hurt my brain was the priority of the jetpack, I defintely would like to see a bunch of the trash maps (trash being the FPS killer maps, such as innocent motel earlier version) removed first, and the crappy, unused t/d weaps.

Hi Snak. Thanks for your response. 

1. Would you consider the weapons in premium crates an unfair advantage to those who are fortunate enough to have enough points to buy the weapon, or if the probability allows them to get the weapon? Having the ability to purchase or receive a special weapon is unfair to those who haven’t been plauomg for as long a time as us.

2. As Laced told me before you, jumping does not affect accuracy. My sincerest apologies for spreading misinformation, much like the mainstream media of today. And if you can’t hit someone because they’re bunny hopping around like a...well bunny, you should report them for exploiting, whether or not they have a jet pack or not. Because that’s an unfair advantage to you. And if you can’t get a headshot on someone bunny hopping, then surely the other carpal tunnel-ridden, trash players can’t either. Yes, the hit boxes are quite garbage. But to suggest not shooting someone’s visible chest when it’s present and their head is not, is quite silly.

3. Yes, other Valve games only have single jump. Much like other games not developed by Valve. Do you know what those other games have though? Objects that are at such a height that allow them be jumped over.

Good conversation though. Looking forward to continuing it.

1: While certain weapon's may give a slight advantage over other weapons, they don't mess with the physical gameplay that the jetpack does.

2: I shoulden't be forced to have to take body shots because a certain item is allowing a player to exploit the ability to hide his head.

3: Not sure what you mean  by this, Jumping is easy as hell in this game and every valve game, unless you are talking in particular jumping to unreachable areas, which again is an exploit.

You know, I thought about what you said and what I said, and looking back at it all, I’m not too sure why I came at you with so much spice. You’re right. You shouldn’t be expected to take body shots because someone’s head is through the ceiling. That’s stupid and game breaking. I guess my original argument was based on me not wanting to see the jet pack go because of the jumping distance/height and the fall damage negation. Like I said earlier, if someone finds a better alternative (which is going to require someone to actually go and look for something better, AND for us to actually implement it) I’ll be happy.

Nice little conversation we had. I’d be down for another some time soon.

You respond like a civil and intelligent person so I have upmost respect for you. I understand your side, you want something to reduce fall damage, while the jetpack does that, it also breaks immersion and gameplay in many ways. I'm all for alternatives, and if someone can find something, I'd be quite happy.

[lacer]

I appreciate the text wall of civil conversation. See what happens when we aren't dicks to each other?

[Noire ♜]

Actually, I don't think any of the weapons that are of higher tier rarity are 'p2w'.
They did use to be, however now, you need to be good in order to get them.
75 Premium Points every time you're number 1, get good bois.

btw, that's 5 crate opens ever map win.
and stop complaining, just remove the jump pack already.
if I can outplay people without it, you can too; learn to bhop, forcibly.

[Foxka]

I appreciate the text wall of civil conversation. See what happens when we aren't dicks to each other?

fk u idiot


In response, we could have an addon that does indeed reduce accuracy if a player is jumping, that would almost present a perfect solution to the problem here

[MiniMe]

I appreciate the text wall of civil conversation. See what happens when we aren't dicks to each other?

fk u idiot


In response, we could have an addon that does indeed reduce accuracy if a player is jumping, that would almost present a perfect solution to the problem here

Please, we’re not trying to become a gmod battle royals server.

[Gabe]

1. My analysis of competing hypotheses based on preliminary evidence inputted has determined the following: Keeping the jump has the least inconsistencies with the hypothesis, alternative by a negligible margin are second, and outright removal with no changes is last with the most inconsistencies. So in other words, Keeping it has the most benefits and is mainly consistent, alternatives is right up there with it, and removal has a lot of inconsistencies. 
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2. Does this conclusion generally seem to be accurate? In a sense yes. So what the heck is ACH, why the hell did I use this? The truth is I got bored... BUT ACH is a useful tool to aid in identifying alternative scenarios for a range of different possibilities and rejecting certain hypotheses rather than confirming them. Rooting out multiple types of cognitive biases such as confirmation and anchor biases is another useful asset. However, the results/tool does not measure the severity in an accurate sense and would not determine which one would have the costliest consequences if it were to happen. It also does not show the relationship between several interconnected factors. 
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
3. So why am I saying this whole speel? Because to me, it seems like the possibility of outright removal can be rejected and either keeping it with some slight changes or finding alternatives are the best logistical options. So, if anyone has any alternatives or changes to the jump pack that might be useful, feel free to keep commenting and it can be looked into. These can start being looked into immediately but it won't be a fast or easy process. It can always be tested on test server to reject certain alternatives too. As I have said before, it is a complex issue that no one wins. People will complain about what happens to the jump pack regardless. They all have their benefits and their downsides. So our goal to come to a majority consensus based on logic and reality. It can be hard to do but not impossible.  
   
   

uh thanks for coming to my ted talk... continue to suggest things because admin mans and big brother will look down on this thread eventually, we should finally come to some sort conclusion so we avoid this whole biannual discussion that has been going in circles for years... to an extent.

my take is that keeping it has a lot of benefits that can have some minor changes to it and if a good and viable long-lasting alternative whether it be lower jp power/fall damage negation, whatever else, then that can work too. But there don't seem to be too many good ones out there atm. I still stand by everything I said in my previous comment on this thread

ok TLDR: don't read what's below or numbers, just read the bottom two sentences ahaha

[Gabe]

So one thing is being tried out for one day or a few here to see how it runs--The jump pack power has been lowered down from 12 to about 8 as a starting point. We don't want to it be completely useless either and defeat the purpose of it so, let's see how this goes. It should be live on regular server

give feedback if you would like to