[§6SEMBER_UNO]

The real truth is if a staff member wants and or needs your help they will ask for it. The last thing you want is to kick or mute a player who the staff are deliberately ignoring to gather evidence. More goes on in the background then most people think. Communication between staff in the admin chat and between players using psay. Don't assume staff are just not doing their jobs.

I don't think donors need more leeway regarding powers and a rule should be set in stone that donors are not to use powers in the presence of staff unless asked.

[lacer]

The real truth is if a staff member wants and or needs your help they will ask for it. The last thing you want is to kick or mute a player who the staff are deliberately ignoring to gather evidence. More goes on in the background then most people think.

Being a former staff member, I have to disagree. If a Donor got a gag/mute in before I did, I was fine with it. To gag someone they had to have said something or blown your eardrums out in order to earn that gag/mute. For me, personally, it's not hard to record the last 5+ minutes of stupidity with Shadowplay. Why would I continue letting the people who are on the server hear these apes rather than just gagging them and making a mental note of each time they were warned/punished?

[Darkkran]

The real truth is if a staff member wants and or needs your help they will ask for it. The last thing you want is to kick or mute a player who the staff are deliberately ignoring to gather evidence. More goes on in the background then most people think.

Being a former staff member, I have to disagree. If a Donor got a gag/mute in before I did, I was fine with it. To gag someone they had to have said something or blown your eardrums out in order to earn that gag/mute. For me, personally, it's not hard to record the last 5+ minutes of stupidity with Shadowplay. Why would I continue letting the people who are on the server hear these apes rather than just gagging them and making a mental note of each time they were warned/punished?

You [ALL] as a staff member (Or ex-staff) is the exact reason we are in the position we are currently in and donators overstepping their boundaries. When you let them jump in front of you, they test the waters with the other staff or ASSUME that is how it normally is until they get in trouble. I would even go as far to say you are teaching them wrong and you are the problem with what staff is currently facing. Without negative intention you have further advanced the thought to them that they are staff, and how you conducted yourself was the way that all other staff did the same.

It's like having a mom and dad on two different playing fields. Mom says no candy before bed, but dad doesn't care so you ignore what your mother said so that you can do what you want and sometimes you get caught but other times you get away with it. But when you get caught, your parents argue and the blame gets shifted off of you and always gets debated until a breaking point pretty much leading to a downfall and divorce. Donators are not stupid, they push their limits until they get "called out" and then repeat the process. This isn't a hard concept to figure out that the staff that allow donators to do stuff for them end up just getting stepped on in the long run.

I'm not saying you are a bad person, but your concept of "help" is flawed and is the current issue. Staff needs to push the issue with a strict hammer and actually crack down on this without warnings. There have been so many warnings, people are just abusing the system.

Sember is right, I've been in a voice channel where multiple staff members were trying to get [Or FUTURE which they need to let them mess up more not just past shit] evidence including an admin, to then be overstepped by a donator because they are NOT FUCKING STAFF and have no clue what's going on and therefore ruins staffs chances to actually get the evidence they need to push a harsher punishment if a punishment can be given at all.

But then again, Dink will never see this so I'm just having fun debating again.

[.cee]

I've been a donor for like 6-7 months and the amount of times I've used gag/mute when staff was on can probably be counted on one hand. Donor isn't a staff position and shouldn't be treated as such imo. Anybody can get donor and being able to donate doesn't prove that one can competently use those commands. A lot of abuse posts are about donors because of that.

[snak]

Agreed. If there is staff on and they are actively handling things, let them handle it. If no staff are on or the that is on is afk/not doing shit then intervene.

[Raider Hanks]

Hello. I was most likely the one you used as an example for giving donors explicit permission to gag someone specific when they came on. In that situation, I did have other duties to attend to. It was the last round of the map and I wanted to watch the death scenes of reports at the time so I could properly handle them. The person I wanted gagged was an individual with a ban request up for mass rdm who had been mic-spamming with an unbearable screeching noise. Even when kicked, they kept coming back. I figured I could leave donors to it since they were the next best option to keep him busy and so I could finish the reports. In this situation, my explicit permission was due to the urgency of the scenario. I didn't know if that person was going to come back from their last kick, but if they did they would be dealt with.

With the question of whether or not donors should be able to use their powers with more leeway, it is indeed situational. Personally, I'm not against the limited usage of donor powers. If only donors are on and someone is breaking rules, like through constant mic-spam, you can gag but SHOULD put a ban request up. In the cases of unbearable mic-spam, like you mentioned, I'm not against some assistance. I've had donors beat me to the draw of gagging someone screaming, and its much appreciated. No one wants to hear that shit.

If the actions of donors are in conflict with what staff are trying to do, then I do not want them using their powers. Staff discretion is a centerpiece of much of the way we enforce ours rules. If you believe the way a staff member is handling a situation is negligent or too heavy handed, make a thread on the forums. Donor is a role that can be taken away when abused, but so can the staff role. If someone is so adamant about using powers to help the server, they should make a trusted application. If you're active in the community and make ban requests, and aren't a problem, its very easy to get staff.