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(06-17-2020, 05:47 PM)Foxka oops Wrote: 1. What can staff do better? I've said this a million times, be consistent. Some players go unpunished for trolling because they are friends with the staff that are on whereas guests that do the same exact thing are instantly warned and punished. I'm not saying to be nazi mods or anything but at least treat everyone as equals, even if they are your friends.
Very good point brought up here that I wanted to add on to. Consistency is terrible. I can think personally of multiple times I've gotten away with breaking rules because I'm friends with the staff that were on. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't make you bad staff, but it also isn't just me talking about rdming Jack or Chris Farley and they don't report me because it's funny.
Another consistency issue is the punishments. Jfc a lot of punishments have been changed or rarely used so much that I wouldn't blame a moderator or an admin if they have to ask if T on T is 2 slays. (an example I use because it's been changed so much. First it was 1. Then it was always 2. And now I think if its intentional its 2 but accidental is 1? But that doesnt make sense because intentional inno on inno or even D on D would still be 1. That's an issue for another post)
Make a set and simple guideline for all punishments. Thanks for bringing it up, Foxka
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06-17-2020, 05:59 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-17-2020, 06:07 PM by Nicol Bolas. Edited 1 time in total.
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(06-17-2020, 05:53 PM)MilkManFromMars Wrote: (06-17-2020, 05:47 PM)Foxka oops Wrote: 1. What can staff do better? I've said this a million times, be consistent. Some players go unpunished for trolling because they are friends with the staff that are on whereas guests that do the same exact thing are instantly warned and punished. I'm not saying to be nazi mods or anything but at least treat everyone as equals, even if they are your friends.
Very good point brought up here that I wanted to add on to. Consistency is terrible. I can think personally of multiple times I've gotten away with breaking rules because I'm friends with the staff that were on. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't make you bad staff, but it also isn't just me talking about rdming Jack or Chris Farley and they don't report me because it's funny.
Another consistency issue is the punishments. Jfc a lot of punishments have been changed or rarely used so much that I wouldn't blame a moderator or an admin if they have to ask if T on T is 2 slays. (an example I use because it's been changed so much. First it was 1. Then it was always 2. And now I think if its intentional its 2 but accidental is 1? But that doesnt make sense because intentional inno on inno or even D on D would still be 1. That's an issue for another post)
Make a set and simple guideline for all punishments. Thanks for bringing it up, Foxka
We do have a guideline system that tends to cover most situations here. Consistency is something I've been trying to work on as my time and Staff are aware. I do agree with your above points and it is something that needs to be worked on.
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(06-17-2020, 05:45 PM)MilkManFromMars Wrote: Time to make an unpopular reply and drop my rep by 50 points.
I think that this take is dumb. And I'm not shitposting since I have to clarify that every time I make a post now. And yes, I'll elaborate.
Everyone wants to blame the servers issues on some invisible boogeyman every time people aren't happy, because it's easier than actually taking the time to get evidence and do something about it. In most cases, I'd be the one to argue that people are too sensitive and take it too seriously, and though I haven't abandoned that mindset, I do agree that there are regulars and guests who actually do harass people and have the intent to ruin the game for everyone who isn't their friend (yes people have friend groups, you don't have to say clique for everything, you're not a 6th grade health teacher).
So what should you do about these people, you ask? Easy. Ban them, there you go. 90% of us think of at least 2-3 people on server every time we read a post like this, so why aren't they banned yet? Because we think it's too tedious to gather evidence, make a report, and let it sit and be judged upon the high courts. So maybe we grab a clip or two and a couple screenshots, but it's not worth the effort by then and it collects dust in our hard drives or gets deleted until someone else does the job in 8 months so you can tack it on. The only thing you can do is encourage players to send you clips and screenshots of problem players in small doses, then guess what? When just 4 people send you just 2 clips of toxic players harassing people or breaking some other rule, you've got 8 pieces of evidence to take action with. Keep an archive, don't put your regulars and members through the process of collecting all 8 (or however much it takes) pieces of the puzzle to ban someone, encourage them to give you what they have, and keep what's actually viable. Then, the staff become a hub for all negative incidents, and when compiled properly, with good communication, will stop players from just breaking a couple rules when one staff is on and then waiting for the next one so that it's a clean slate. (Don't get me started on Awarn. I shouldn't have to explain that it would never be used properly in this way. If it would, it'd be cool, but it rarely is)
Listen, one of the major events that made me resent old staff was a weeklong issue with a group of trolls where I asked staff to do something about someone who wasn't dealt with until the end of the week when I finally sacked up and in just 2 hours got the person who's entire group of friends had been harassing me for almost 7 days. What did I learn from this? Staff are helpful, sometimes. But also unreliable, and as a player I have to gather at least some evidence. When it's no longer the job of the regular to gather all the evidence to ban someone like that, the server will slowly (and I mean slowly) start to remove or punish the problem children when a system is used properly.
My last piece of input is about prevention of these issues. Why haven't we discussed systems like voice battery, chat filters, spam bots, and actual enforcement of spam rules? Oh wait- We have, a lot. We just never use them haha silly me. Use what you have, prevent what you can, and bam, half of the problem disappears just like that. If nobody is able to sing into their mic for 4 minutes straight, then you wont have to worry about doing anything about it because it's never gonna be a problem anymore. If nobody is able to send 30 messages in 30 seconds then you wont have that issue anymore. (And I stg don't use my example variables against me because you know I just thought of them in 2 seconds.)
TLDR; Staff: Sack up and do something about it
Players: Sack up and get some evidence to the staff
Making a forum post that does nothing is going to do (get this) nothing
I did not write this thread with intention as it being a magical fix-all for community issues. I made it because I enjoy being open about issues I see and I wanted a single place for discussion like this to take place. A lot of the problem-players have gotten punished and banned, although I know it isn't always something that can be seen. I understand the frustration when it feels like nothing is being done but I don't want you to feel alone. I promise we as staff have been trying our hardest but we're not omnipotent. We make mistakes just like any other player and while evidence is being gathered, it's not the easiest to come by. I appreciate the time you took to respond to the thread Milkman thank you.
As for voice battery, it has been discussed plenty of times (you can look through the suggestions portion of the forums to confirm this) and the general consensus with staff and nonstaff is that it would be worse for the server. I won't bring up every pro and con, however the community was largely against a voice battery. Not to say it cannot be discussed again however.
I have yet to see too many issues with spam rules being ignored, and I do tend to stop spam of any kind when it takes place.
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@ Nicol Bolas i dont feel like quoting it and hiding or deleting it all so I'm just gonna tag you
Really, there's 2 main takeaways that I wanted from that post.
1) The staff should encourage people to report incidents of harassment, major spam, etc, even if it alone is not bannable, and communicate and collect this well so that they can actually tell who the real problems are (because I'm actually being honest and nice when I say that if you think a lot of the problem makers are gone in this community then you're either delusional or disconnected)
2) Players should do their part as well in adding to that collection of evidence and helping in removing those types of people
A third point I want to brush on now is that sometimes as the higher ups for the server, if you see an issue that needs fixing, do something about it. Plain and simple. Sure, I understand bringing things that are incredibly serious to the community so you dont have... issues... like in the past ***cough cough addressing toxicity*** but things like voice battery or spam filters, if they're going to fix the problem, shouldnt be shot down because a couple people dont like the idea. Hell, I dont like the idea, but here I am advocating for it.
"So what, just piss everyone off and do it anyways?" Kinda
Be lenient with it. Add voice battery, add spam filters, but make them loose. Make the battery charge fast with a limit of a minute or two minutes, then see the reaction. If its HATED and everyone just despises it, take it out and APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR MISTAKES. I have seen a lot of staff say "Were not perfect, you cant expect us to do everything right!!!111!11!1!!!" Newsflash, we dont. Not even close. We just want staff to sack up and say "Hey, I fucked up. I'm sorry. I'm gonna fix it and learn." Which sounds simple, but does NOT always happen.
Back to the other point so I can wrap up, if people DO like the new additions (or at least dont mind it, in the example with 2 minutes, maybe they realize that they're never gonna need to hold their push to talk for 2 minutes) then slowly make it maybe a little more or a little more restrictive until it hits that sweet spot of protected, but not sheltered. There's a reason everyone says its a slow process, there's a reason we have a test server, and there's a reason why we update and add to the server. Because sometimes we need trial and error to see what is REALLY best for our problems. Hell, I figure half the people commenting dont even know what they want staff or regulars to do about it.
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06-17-2020, 06:25 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-17-2020, 06:45 PM by .cee. Edited 3 times in total.)
1. What can staff do better?
Staff should communicate with players better. There are too many instances where certain situations escalate due to inadequacy of communication. If somebody is breaking the rules or doing something that is crossing the line, rather than talk about it in admin chat or discord, the staff member should reach out to that person and ask them to stop doing what they do. A one on one conversation is much easier to manage and allow the player to understand the behavior or actions that led to said conversation. That player can ask questions and communicate with the staff member directly. I try to do this when I see people breaking rules by simply privately messaging them. This usually resolves the situation. Proper communication has more of an effect than most people think. When enforcing rules, staff should also not be afraid to take a stand and prohibit people from doing bad things, even if it is an unpopular stance. You are staff and a leader who may sometimes make decisions that people don't like, however you must enforce the rules and make sure people are not behaving poorly. There is a fine line between trolling, having fun, and anarchy. It is your duty to set those boundaries.
I like the point that @"Ernest" brought up, regarding gagging people. Punishments should escalate. I constantly see someone say something that they shouldn't or mic spam and get warned multiple times. I have been trying to implement this into my staffing behavior. I believe that if someone is warned/gagged/muted the first time, they can be ungagged/unmuted instantly, however punishments should escalate. If they continue to break the rules in the same matter and receive warnings, these punishments should escalate -- instant, 1 round, 1 map, 2 maps, 3 maps, or something similar. It could also be time sensitive -- 1 minute, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, 60 minutes, etc.
2. What can the playerbase do better?
We are all here to have fun. A lot of people consider trolling and fucking around to be fun. These people need to have respect for other players who have fun by following the rules and playing the game properly and vice-versa. There needs to be a subtle blend of these types of behaviors. There is currently a lot of trolling, fucking around, targeting, etc. going on in the server. Situations like these can be handled by staff when they are online, however soon after the last staff member leaves the server, the behavior goes to shit. Players should hold each other responsible maintaining good conduct. If something occurs, they should do their best to find evidence of it and contact a staff member or post on the forums. We are a community, we need to act like one.
3. What can I as Admin do better?
I know that you are looking for feedback to better yourself as a leader in the community, however I believe that you have been doing a great job so far given the circumstances. I would suggest that you be more transparent and communicate with staff about more things. Maybe ask them their opinion about changes and their opinion on it. I understand that there is a need-to-know basis, so you should use your own discretion which staff rank you communicate certain things to. Mods are obviously privileged to more information than T-mods which are privileged to more information than Trusteds, and this trickles down through the server ranks. There are those who talk too much and love to gossip. One person tells a secret to another saying 'don't tell anybody.' That person tells that secret to another person and tells them 'don't tell anybody' and that chain continues. There are also certain staff members who enjoy to bend the rules in their favor. Staff member should be policed a bit better. In addition, I think that certain situations should be addressed quicker. For example the bugs posted on the disc (locomotive ones and dolls for example).
I think you should introduce some community events to bring everybody closer. For example, let's say once every 2-4 weeks we have a community night for 2 hours. I remember we had these when I used to play TTT back in the day (2011?). One event was a small open map with a lot of props and everybody had a poltergeist. Another was where it was T's vs D's, there were more T's than D's and T's only spawned with a knife while D's spawned with something else (don't remember). Another was a newton launcher night. Possibilities are endless.
4. What can you as a player or staff member do?
I am going to do everything I can to be a responsible and understanding staff member to ensure that everybody in the community enjoys themselves and has a good time. If anybody ever needs to talk or has any feedback/input/issues, add me on steam or message me on discord and I can help you out. I will try to continue to improve myself and be someone that everybody can rely on for anything whatsoever.
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I'd personally like more staff to take potential staff members under their wing. We need more trusted and it would help a lot if current staff would train them up.
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I'm not so sure what's going on in TTT right now but it seems like the air is tarting to give the community Communa Virus. The entire community seems like it's getting burnt out, starting with Murder and now it's TTT.
To try and make this have content I'll say that having consistency in rules is something that should definitely be worked on.
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(06-17-2020, 07:18 PM)thunderwalrusinnthebar Wrote: I'd personally like more staff to take potential staff members under their wing. We need more trusted and it would help a lot if current staff would train them up. Sure lemme just apply real quick
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(06-17-2020, 07:18 PM)thunderwalrusinnthebar Wrote: I'd personally like more staff to take potential staff members under their wing. We need more trusted and it would help a lot if current staff would train them up. I have personally tried my best to do that. The old sponsorship system was supposed to serve as that and I think we should bring it back here soon.
The way I see it is the person you train you should teach them as if they were your successor. That's what Matt did to me at least, took me under his wing and trained me the best he could. After I got T-Mod the first time I trained quite a few different people, but since my return Jack has been the one I've invested the most into. Shoot I even helped you before you got staff and told you how you should change for the better.
Overall though I do 100% agree with you in that sense once we are all more consistent.
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(06-17-2020, 08:49 PM)dong Wrote: (06-17-2020, 07:18 PM)thunderwalrusinnthebar Wrote: I'd personally like more staff to take potential staff members under their wing. We need more trusted and it would help a lot if current staff would train them up. I have personally tried my best to do that. The old sponsorship system was supposed to serve as that and I think we should bring it back here soon.
The way I see it is the person you train you should teach them as if they were your successor. That's what Matt did to me at least, took me under his wing and trained me the best he could. After I got T-Mod the first time I trained quite a few different people, but since my return Jack has been the one I've invested the most into. Shoot I even helped you before you got staff and told you how you should change for the better.
Overall though I do 100% agree with you in that sense once we are all more consistent.
With the amount of staff that have left recently, idk if we'll have enough mods left for sponsorships to work.
I'll respond to the OP as a whole when I'm not depressed.
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(06-17-2020, 08:49 PM)dong Wrote: (06-17-2020, 07:18 PM)thunderwalrusinnthebar Wrote: I'd personally like more staff to take potential staff members under their wing. We need more trusted and it would help a lot if current staff would train them up. I have personally tried my best to do that. The old sponsorship system was supposed to serve as that and I think we should bring it back here soon.
The way I see it is the person you train you should teach them as if they were your successor. That's what Matt did to me at least, took me under his wing and trained me the best he could. After I got T-Mod the first time I trained quite a few different people, but since my return Jack has been the one I've invested the most into. Shoot I even helped you before you got staff and told you how you should change for the better.
Overall though I do 100% agree with you in that sense once we are all more consistent. Yeah you for sure helped me out. I just feel like the lack of trusted hurts the server. We need more staff right now
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