02-23-2022, 10:34 PM
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In response to Salty
The idea has been brought up a couple of different was. It is one of the more popular solutions and has the least amount of work for a change that solves most of the previous problems. Is it still possible to upvote the hell out of a toxic post, so when its deleted it has to have rep removed by the team? Yes. But it is an option actually inside the plugin itself, and the issues with it would be more manageable without having to jump through moderation or code hoops.
Two options exist: with or without the totals. Without it become little more than the facebook like button. With it becomes a popularity/admin-kiss-ass button (like it wasn't already). Technically w/o has the least amount of potential trouble and little to no point to "farm" rep, but that's just my thoughts.
In response to Nuru's thesis
Unfortunately, some of the first section seems to have been glossed over. Much of it is why the admin team is so against adding it back as many wouldn't want to touch it with a 10ft pole again.
1. I see this immediately becoming +rep as the "reason" to which we would either have to now moderate someone's reason for an opinion or quickly give up that bit. It would also take away the feature of hitting a button without typing, which to some is the important part. It technically could be achieved tho.
2. This would be a good safety net regardless of what version we implement, I would just have to figure out how to do it. That mingled with one or two other ideas might be worth attempting to figure out, but it would take more time than most suggestions, at which point we come back to hours spent over internet points. Does sound better than 2 hours over 3 days deleting one guys rep.
3. Essentially, a whole other ball game.
4. Big brain, but not really a solution, more of how the rep was being treated. Used to be it was a good way to gauge opinions from those that didn't want to fully comment, such as apps. I really do miss that; I really don't miss hours of dms and checking and then *maybe* having to delete and catalogue internet points.
5. While not the problem, it might as aspect we use with other suggestions.
6. Previously we had rules that were harder to meet the requirements of what was considered rep manipulation. I have them saved, but they were not fleshed out or meant to be pushed like they were. Given just the time alone we would waste over such nonsense, I am against this until a good measurement is made. Even then simply turning it back on makes for a host of other issues, such as spamming it. A cap would likely have to be created, but even that can't handle dogpiling, which means moderation.
No rep is the 'cleanest', and part of the options considered will be keeping it that way, dependent on the responses. I really don't intend to bog down the team over internet points. We shall see.
Russ
Noted. Not really subscribing to the forums being dead based on its activity and what we see year to year but I do intend to smash a lot into an excel file and see our activity in various areas.
Report button still doesn't affect the time needed to look into it. Reporting was never the issue, thanks to discord dms. That being said, I do want a new report button for other issues as well. Since it was always broken to some degree, I haven't actually seen what it should look like and will likely need to shell it and remake it.
Jammin, Voss
To the first part, I'd be the idiot holding the bag if we just reintroduce it and have no intention to spend so much time on internet points again. The benefit to cost just doesn't balance. And if we did I can't call it "Fact Check" since facebook got there first. I get it, but a chunk of the issues would still be there, we'd just do that same work, if not more with tighter rules.
To totals, if we went to +1 only would that still be a respect measurement (if it was)? I feel like the admins would dominate that more than usual. Thoughts?
I believe we could section it but where would be a question, as @voss also suggested the exact opposite. To me it does make more sense to have it in more subjective sections, but I would love to see the other side of that argument.
To the second comment from Jammin,
Most of these would require an overhaul of the plugin, yet they are valid parts that pieced and automated could take down a lot of the spam trouble. I'm not confident I could pull them all off in a reasonable time but some of them may could be done on the backburner while implementing a different, partial system like only +1. Specifically, a cap would help but the one built into the system doesn't track rep given on posts, just the ones given on profiles. Mini's account is always the exception and on the theme he's been on it might actually have a cap, so sugam maybe played with it a long time ago. It's something I wrote down to check out.
@Ashly Is Overwhelmed
Elaborate? I'm unsure if that's just a meme or a point to be made. "Witch hunting" can be an actual concern if people are getting pissy over rep given, which did occur sometimes.
Fish
Ill do this part tomorrow as I want some responses out tonight
Happy
Active? No. But then it wasn't as much a discussion to begin with as much as a thread by the person to give some history for the month. An oddity for us to be sure as historically it would have been shitposted into oblivion, so that's kinda nice change on its own. Still unsure why posts made to farm rep were held to such a high regard.
Rand, Russ, Voidzz
Same as Fish
Dong
I really don't intend for this to sound how it comes off but are you offering to help? Two, maybe three admins depending on the month offer to point it out but bogging through the mess has typically been left to me. And training staff just for internet points is a waste of their time and I doubt it'd be a selling point, to be honest. Simply turning it back on puts us at square one. Gotta figure out a new approach to it, or some part of it has to be redone which all boils down to time either way.
3mb3ry
Not to worry, all posts feedback or deleted will be taken into consideration.
In response to Salty
The idea has been brought up a couple of different was. It is one of the more popular solutions and has the least amount of work for a change that solves most of the previous problems. Is it still possible to upvote the hell out of a toxic post, so when its deleted it has to have rep removed by the team? Yes. But it is an option actually inside the plugin itself, and the issues with it would be more manageable without having to jump through moderation or code hoops.
Two options exist: with or without the totals. Without it become little more than the facebook like button. With it becomes a popularity/admin-kiss-ass button (like it wasn't already). Technically w/o has the least amount of potential trouble and little to no point to "farm" rep, but that's just my thoughts.
In response to Nuru's thesis
Unfortunately, some of the first section seems to have been glossed over. Much of it is why the admin team is so against adding it back as many wouldn't want to touch it with a 10ft pole again.
1. I see this immediately becoming +rep as the "reason" to which we would either have to now moderate someone's reason for an opinion or quickly give up that bit. It would also take away the feature of hitting a button without typing, which to some is the important part. It technically could be achieved tho.
2. This would be a good safety net regardless of what version we implement, I would just have to figure out how to do it. That mingled with one or two other ideas might be worth attempting to figure out, but it would take more time than most suggestions, at which point we come back to hours spent over internet points. Does sound better than 2 hours over 3 days deleting one guys rep.
3. Essentially, a whole other ball game.
4. Big brain, but not really a solution, more of how the rep was being treated. Used to be it was a good way to gauge opinions from those that didn't want to fully comment, such as apps. I really do miss that; I really don't miss hours of dms and checking and then *maybe* having to delete and catalogue internet points.
5. While not the problem, it might as aspect we use with other suggestions.
6. Previously we had rules that were harder to meet the requirements of what was considered rep manipulation. I have them saved, but they were not fleshed out or meant to be pushed like they were. Given just the time alone we would waste over such nonsense, I am against this until a good measurement is made. Even then simply turning it back on makes for a host of other issues, such as spamming it. A cap would likely have to be created, but even that can't handle dogpiling, which means moderation.
No rep is the 'cleanest', and part of the options considered will be keeping it that way, dependent on the responses. I really don't intend to bog down the team over internet points. We shall see.
Russ
Noted. Not really subscribing to the forums being dead based on its activity and what we see year to year but I do intend to smash a lot into an excel file and see our activity in various areas.
Report button still doesn't affect the time needed to look into it. Reporting was never the issue, thanks to discord dms. That being said, I do want a new report button for other issues as well. Since it was always broken to some degree, I haven't actually seen what it should look like and will likely need to shell it and remake it.
Jammin, Voss
To the first part, I'd be the idiot holding the bag if we just reintroduce it and have no intention to spend so much time on internet points again. The benefit to cost just doesn't balance. And if we did I can't call it "Fact Check" since facebook got there first. I get it, but a chunk of the issues would still be there, we'd just do that same work, if not more with tighter rules.
To totals, if we went to +1 only would that still be a respect measurement (if it was)? I feel like the admins would dominate that more than usual. Thoughts?
I believe we could section it but where would be a question, as @voss also suggested the exact opposite. To me it does make more sense to have it in more subjective sections, but I would love to see the other side of that argument.
To the second comment from Jammin,
Most of these would require an overhaul of the plugin, yet they are valid parts that pieced and automated could take down a lot of the spam trouble. I'm not confident I could pull them all off in a reasonable time but some of them may could be done on the backburner while implementing a different, partial system like only +1. Specifically, a cap would help but the one built into the system doesn't track rep given on posts, just the ones given on profiles. Mini's account is always the exception and on the theme he's been on it might actually have a cap, so sugam maybe played with it a long time ago. It's something I wrote down to check out.
@
Elaborate? I'm unsure if that's just a meme or a point to be made. "Witch hunting" can be an actual concern if people are getting pissy over rep given, which did occur sometimes.
Fish
Ill do this part tomorrow as I want some responses out tonight
Happy
Active? No. But then it wasn't as much a discussion to begin with as much as a thread by the person to give some history for the month. An oddity for us to be sure as historically it would have been shitposted into oblivion, so that's kinda nice change on its own. Still unsure why posts made to farm rep were held to such a high regard.
Rand, Russ, Voidzz
Same as Fish
Dong
I really don't intend for this to sound how it comes off but are you offering to help? Two, maybe three admins depending on the month offer to point it out but bogging through the mess has typically been left to me. And training staff just for internet points is a waste of their time and I doubt it'd be a selling point, to be honest. Simply turning it back on puts us at square one. Gotta figure out a new approach to it, or some part of it has to be redone which all boils down to time either way.
3mb3ry
Not to worry, all posts feedback or deleted will be taken into consideration.
Matt_St3 / Strongrule / Spartan001295
Forum Admin - Resigned TTT Admin
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[00:04] matt_st3 (Strongrule) [traitor] has damaged Taliban Tom [detective] for 4.9999999349555e+14 HP with an unknown weapon
