[Damien]

here witnesses are nothing unless they also have evidence

Not everyone has shadowplay running 24/7, not everyone is recording 24/7. There are cases where witnesses may be the only proof you can have. You could have had a good twenty to thirty people talling you what I'm telling you now. I'd say it's a poor situation if you're choosing to allow reported abuse because of a lack of video evidence. I'm not saying you should ban the guy over circumstantial evidence, but I'd at least consider looking into the situation. If it's your policy to not take circumstantial evidence into account though, that's fine. The witnesses are irrelevant.

You have three videos, and everything I'm talking about is in those videos.

If witnesses are the only proof you have then don't post. Simple. They can't convict without proof.

[ඞ]

here witnesses are nothing unless they also have evidence

Not everyone has shadowplay running 24/7, not everyone is recording 24/7. There are cases where witnesses may be the only proof you can have. You could have had a good twenty to thirty people talling you what I'm telling you now. I'd say it's a poor situation if you're choosing to allow reported abuse because of a lack of video evidence. I'm not saying you should ban the guy over circumstantial evidence, but I'd at least consider looking into the situation. If it's your policy to not take circumstantial evidence into account though, that's fine. The witnesses are irrelevant.

You have three videos, and everything I'm talking about is in those videos.

If witnesses are the only proof you have then don't post. Simple. They can't convict without proof.

Again I'd like to reiterate that I was told to post here by BIG_SAD as a follow up to the complaint I made to him in game. If this isn't the proper board for that then I apologize, but if it can't be solved in-game and it can't be solved here, where should I have taken  it up?

---

Offender's Name: BIIG_SAD

Offender's SteamID: STEAM_0:0:154149659

What Server(s): PropHunt

Offender's Rank: Trusted

What They Did: Gagged several users for breaking the rules which is fine, but then continued to gag others unnecissarily. Gagged users for singing, doing dumb voice impressions. Gagged others who just happened to be talking at the same time. Threatened to gag others who disagreed with him. Left the server with users still gagged who had not broken the rules and were gagged improperly.

When They Did It: 1:30am-200:am

Potential Witnesses: Wocknaps, LEVI, B!TER, Dante

Proof (You must have VIDEO and/or Multiple Screenshots as proof*): LEVI Was Left Muted, also see Dante's video of the same incident.

Other: Gagged improperly, left the server with members still gagged. The screenshot is LEVI, who was left gagged after he left.

1. singing is against the rules, falls under micspam. Asked said players to cease. they did not and were gagged. same thing with voice impressions. these can fall into micspam in the same way that repeatedly saying something constitutes micspam.
2. thatguy was gagged in error. He was ungagged. 
3. y'all accrued map gags for the most of it. I told you all to behave more than three times on just that map alone. Most of the people gagged had been on map gags previous map that I made the choice to end at the end of the map, and not when they were set to expire, which is throughout that map.

EVIDENCE:
map one no edit for context
the other abuse thread that was filed at the exact same time... with responses.
MAP 2 . DC'd partway through round by relay boot (self)

I'd also like to apologize to you for the tone and my response to the situation. After watching the video and having some time to cool down I can see I was pretty heated from the events, and it lead me to be harsher than what was necessary. At the end of the day it was a hectic situation and you did just make a mistake, so I'd like to apologize for my pointedness towards you in-game and the harshness of my responses up until now.

I'd still like you to consider that you may have been in the wrong in several, but not all, areas. Justifiably so, but still wrong. I'd also hope that if there's another issue we can take it up in game when it happens, though I understand the heatedness of the situation may have made that difficult. What can I do better to adress issues like these in the future with you and other staff, without resorting to a staff complaint?

[August]

here witnesses are nothing unless they also have evidence

Not everyone has shadowplay running 24/7, not everyone is recording 24/7. There are cases where witnesses may be the only proof you can have. You could have had a good twenty to thirty people talling you what I'm telling you now. I'd say it's a poor situation if you're choosing to allow reported abuse because of a lack of video evidence. I'm not saying you should ban the guy over circumstantial evidence, but I'd at least consider looking into the situation. If it's your policy to not take circumstantial evidence into account though, that's fine. The witnesses are irrelevant.

You have three videos, and everything I'm talking about is in those videos.

If witnesses are the only proof you have then don't post. Simple. They can't convict without proof.

Again I'd like to reiterate that I was told to post here by BIG_SAD as a follow up to the complaint I made to him in game. If this isn't the proper board for that then I apologize, but if it can't be solved in-game and it can't be solved here, where should I have taken  it up?

My best recommendation is to just document any future abuse, that way the admins have irrefutable proof of the accused's wrongdoings. There are many different free applications you can use for video recording, including Nvidia Shadowplay and OBS (both of which I use personally, though shadowplay requires you to have a Nvidia graphics card.) I would also check with the other players who were on tonight to see if they have any evidence/recordings of what happened and have them post them here.

[ඞ]

here witnesses are nothing unless they also have evidence

Not everyone has shadowplay running 24/7, not everyone is recording 24/7. There are cases where witnesses may be the only proof you can have. You could have had a good twenty to thirty people talling you what I'm telling you now. I'd say it's a poor situation if you're choosing to allow reported abuse because of a lack of video evidence. I'm not saying you should ban the guy over circumstantial evidence, but I'd at least consider looking into the situation. If it's your policy to not take circumstantial evidence into account though, that's fine. The witnesses are irrelevant.

You have three videos, and everything I'm talking about is in those videos.

If witnesses are the only proof you have then don't post. Simple. They can't convict without proof.

Again I'd like to reiterate that I was told to post here by BIG_SAD as a follow up to the complaint I made to him in game. If this isn't the proper board for that then I apologize, but if it can't be solved in-game and it can't be solved here, where should I have taken  it up?

My best recommendation is to just document any future abuse, that way the admins have irrefutable proof of the accused's wrongdoings. There are many different free applications you can use for video recording, including Nvidia Shadowplay and OBS (both of which I use personally, though shadowplay requires you to have a Nvidia graphics card.) I would also check with the other players who were on tonight to see if they have any evidence/recordings of what happened and have them post them here.

Thanks, I normally have shadowplay running but my drivers updated and its been off since. I hadn't turned it back on yet. I'll see if I can talk to some of the other players, though I'm doubtful. 

Either way I don't want the guy prosecuted, I just wanted to talk with him as a staff member about how I thought some of the stuff he did was unjustified and he sent me here. This probably didn't need to be escalated this far and I'm hoping we can just address the issue, or at least talk about it, and move on.

[KillOwensKill]

Offender's Name: BIIG_SAD

Offender's SteamID: STEAM_0:0:154149659

What Server(s): PropHunt

Offender's Rank: Trusted

What They Did: Gagged several users for breaking the rules which is fine, but then continued to gag others unnecissarily. Gagged users for singing, doing dumb voice impressions. Gagged others who just happened to be talking at the same time. Threatened to gag others who disagreed with him. Left the server with users still gagged who had not broken the rules and were gagged improperly.

When They Did It: 1:30am-200:am

Potential Witnesses: Wocknaps, LEVI, B!TER, Dante

Proof (You must have VIDEO and/or Multiple Screenshots as proof*): LEVI Was Left Muted, also see Dante's video of the same incident.

Other: Gagged improperly, left the server with members still gagged. The screenshot is LEVI, who was left gagged after he left.

1. singing is against the rules, falls under micspam. Asked said players to cease. they did not and were gagged. same thing with voice impressions. these can fall into micspam in the same way that repeatedly saying something constitutes micspam.
2. thatguy was gagged in error. He was ungagged. 
3. y'all accrued map gags for the most of it. I told you all to behave more than three times on just that map alone. Most of the people gagged had been on map gags previous map that I made the choice to end at the end of the map, and not when they were set to expire, which is throughout that map.

EVIDENCE:
map one no edit for context
the other abuse thread that was filed at the exact same time... with responses.
MAP 2 . DC'd partway through round by relay boot (self)

This doesn't address my complaint. As I stated above, you gagged people who were breaking the rules by singing and doing voice impressions, but also gagged those who happened to be talking at the same time. When pressed on this issue, you maintained that those people were gagged with reason and that if people had a problem with your decisions they should quote "file a staff complaint on the forums". This riled people up further than they already were. Nobody wants to feel silenced. People tried to take it up with you but you completely shut them down and threatened to mute them too for disagreeing. After a while you ungagged a few people, but left several gagged who had still yet to break any rules. You then disconnected, leaving them gagged. Most notibly, LEVI.

("file a staff complaint on the forums". This riled people up further than they already were. Nobody wants to feel silenced), and he proceed to tell you how to not feel silenced and file a complain on forum, and yet everyone seens that words would be enough and you should have got more evidence then feelings, this will come to be a "he said, she said" situation, where we aren't going nowhere, and the videos point that the situation where Biig handled was justified.

I get that it was a tough situation and so I can understand if you made mistakes in the moment. Everybody makes mistakes, but it takes admission of a mistake for it to be considered as such. If you're going to attempt to post evidence and maintain that you did nothing wrong even upon further consideration of the events, then it can't be called a mistake. You've looked at what you've done context removed from the high-pressure situation and you've decided everyone there deserved to be gagged and left gagged.

"it takes admission of a mistake for it to be considered as such" can be read as "Admission of Guilt", and in this situation i doubt that was necessary, there is barely a room for mistakes on the videos as showed, and for the "left gagged". the gag would be lifted on the next map if wasnt renewed by someone, so that is a bit unnecessary bad feelings.

An apology was literally all that was necessary. We could have solved this in-game. We could have solved this as soon as the first report was sent. Instead of fixing your mistakes in the moment you told people, and you told me, if they or I had a problem with staff decisions to take it up here. So I'm taking it up here.

"An apology was literally all that was necessary" with the video in it, i doubt that most of the people weren't entitled to one, i agree it could have been solved in game, but with the whole situation showed, that was not going to be the case imo...

I do commend to use the right channels to complain, but you have no case on it... and before you say "you are sucking it up to Biig", believe me i would be the first to be mad at him, cause would be the third time happening and i do have another person in mind that does have a power trip problems, but without proof other then "HE SAID, SHE SAID" you have no case.

-1 for the abuse claim from me.

[⋆ Fx ⋆]

-1 for abuse. All of you were acting like degenerates. He gagged you all once for being loud af and afterwards you all started calling him names saying he was fat or the f slur etc. All for a full server gag for like 5 seconds. It's not difficult to vibe without being obnoxious. He might have been a little quick on some gags but its not abuse.

[Salty]

Thanks to those of you who didn't just make a massive chain quote thread, I appreciate you taking the time to simply hit the BACKSPACE key.


On the subject matter at hand; BIG is constantly on here. I get his approach is a little quick and sudden when it comes to dealing with things, but that doesn't always equate to abuse. I do feel your frustration because the idea that we need to record to build a case like this is a court room can be seen as over-the-top in some cases; however, in the case of abuse, video evidence is always your strongest asset to prove that someone is guilty of abusing their power. Even though videos can be edited to make it look less or worse depending on the situation, a screenshot is even easier to take out of context. 



Sorry, but even though it may seem obnoxious, you have to have video proof to make a strong case for abuse. Otherwise, these just get ignored.

[August]

bump

[TheUltraFish]

This is another thread about the same incident in the other thread of abuse against BIIG_SAD found here: https://www.dinklebergsgmod.com/site/sho...?tid=16040

The issue is resolved and no action will be taken.