[alichay]

imagine if a staff member A went to player B and said "hey so X server, yeah, lemme know if Y occurs there; im not in that server". That is straightforwards a mole. That is some secret police gestapo shit. That is also gross and unethical.

The Document (18 pages is INSANE) is unclear about what's being watched for. but personally, i'd want people to be removed from a community if, for example, it turns out they're violently racist or homophobic. or predatory.

once again, this is why vagueposting is useless. maybe it should've been 19 pages ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(sorry for taking the schizothread seriously)

[3mb3ry]

does anyone know where the rule is for poaching, I'm trying to search forums and discord for the word but nothing is showing up. I'm curious about the verbiage/how you could actually define it? In my eyes, if someone makes a completely unrelated server and goes through all of the work to make sure that its not being discussed here, why is that a problem? obviously friends are going to want to play with their friends but i think another factor is the toxicity in the server between groups. why would people of clique 1 want to join ttt when clique 2 is on and regularly causes issues with clique 1? (this is just a hypothetical, i dont have any cliques in mind) I feel like it would do the server a little good to allow these groups different areas to play at least for the near future considering all of the chaos that has been happening. idk, ive been trying not to actively engage in a lot of the stuff going on but this was a small enough part that i would like more clarity

[Dildo Shwaggins]

imagine if a staff member A went to player B and said "hey so X server, yeah, lemme know if Y occurs there; im not in that server". That is straightforwards a mole. That is some secret police gestapo shit. That is also gross and unethical.

The Document (18 pages is INSANE) is unclear about what's being watched for. but personally, i'd want people to be removed from a community if, for example, it turns out they're violently racist or homophobic. or predatory.

once again, this is why vagueposting is useless. maybe it should've been 19 pages ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(sorry for taking the schizothread seriously)

I think everyone agrees that they should be if they act that way. The point trying to be made is that the proof of said things should be handled in a way of someone bringing forward such evidence to admins. Not the admin investigating personal spaces they aren’t invited to using backdoor methods in an attempt to prove a negative

[YourMateMurph]

The only things I have concerns about is Tief getting admin when not knowing the rules entirely, I'm mostly just talking about the force respond for reports as I don't know of any other instance, as well as going to Foxka when he applied for staff and trying to coerce him into getting her info from another server. There is a reason people make different servers and taking info from different servers and using it for this community is just scummy behavior and I do not want this from an admin or anyone for that matter. What was said to Foxka makes it seem like she was trying to use him multiple times to get info about things in discords shes not a part of which the fact that during that he as in the process of apply for staff is a wild breach of conduct and seems very much as if he didn't do it she wasn't going to accept him.

I do not care about people being in another GMod server, that didn't need to be brought up, as well as messages that kept her from being trusted when she was saying them especially since those messages are somewhat old.

I wanna reiterate that the only problems that I see in this document is the way Tief talked to Foxka, as an admin to someone wanting to join the staff team, as well as her grabbing info from others servers which I would say is a hard thing to argue against as she blatantly asked Foxka about it. With her talking about earning her trust those messages seem very predatory and I do not care what info she is asking about, she should have gone to the people that info is concerned with or if part of that info was brought to her from someone else then she should have followed up with that person.

[BIIG_SAD]

the document is clear about what is being searched for: 
1. any incriminating statements, posts, or content from targeted users (see pages 6-11 where this is detailed.)
2. any statement, posts, or content from target that can be manipulated to become incriminating (see point 1)
3. to convert people to be her figurative eyes and ears in these ofshoot communities and
3b: to thus spy on people in this group when they have certain expectations of privacy to
3b-a1: commit points 1 and 2.

Alichay. I am pretty sure you are in discords that are outside of dinks. I know almost certainly that you are. Would it not be wrong/gross/creepy if, say, I were to ask a person in your private discord to drag up literally anything to incriminate you and get you banned from dinks/wherever?

yes! this would be fucking creepy and gross and strange. (and probably illegal to boot for some kind of internet harassment and stalking law.)(also, fucking yuck)


now it is true, if someone does something illegal outside of dinks, such as doxxing, harassment (what it is legally defined as), p*do shit, among other illegal activities, then of course it should be reported. we do agree on this. 


but I think reporting someone from outside the server to within because "oh, so-and-so said a slur in a private discord" is childish at best. 

in other words recognize that a PRIVATE discord is that-- private. Am I defending "violent" racism, homophobia, sexism, p*do shit etc? no not really. I am not a huge fan of that myself, and I dislike people who are those things. I even was a figure who brought evidence forwards to an admin from other players that led to a successful community ban. I still cant say much about it in order to keep people anonymous. I can direct you to the relevant posts if you would like. But it is not your nor my place to create essentially secret police to investigate people we don't agree with for the purpose of banning them from a community for trumped up allegations, is it?

obviously, yes. report illegal shit like p*dos. they deserve punishment. but like, Someone said a bad word in a place that isn't Dinks by a far shot? nah.

---

(snip)

I think you hit the nail on the head, Murph.


this sums it up simply.

[Damien]

Would it not be wrong/gross/creepy if, say, I were to ask a person in your private discord to drag up literally anything to incriminate you and get you banned from dinks/wherever?

that group did literally just that lmao, they used that evidence in the document multiple times

[clay]

But it is not your nor my place to create essentially secret police to investigate people we don't agree with for the purpose of banning them from a community for trumped up allegations, is it?

hey idiot! the "wall of shame" was originally intended as exclusively available to women who could share messages they had received from people who were harassing them or even stalking them in order to support one another until they had decided how best take those messages to staff. if you or any other members felt threatened by their messages being shared with others maybe those people should have stopped sending those kinds of messages!   hope this helps

secret police, you're going to make me fucking vomit

[BIIG_SAD]

You are willfully and purposefully misconstruing the purpose, intent, and meaning of what I said and I will thus not respond to you further as it seems you don't wish to have a civil conversation in good faith. good night/morning/day.

[茶 Tea]

1. using the word "gestapo" to describe a garry's mod admin is wild
2. using the word "unprofessional attitude" to describe a garry's mod admin is wild
3. using a private discord user list to ban someone for alt evasion is wild
4. using someone else's access to a private discord user list to ban someone for alt evasion is wild
5. writing an 18-page google doc about it is wild

it seems like none of you have been made aware that there is a world outside of garry's mod tbh. that said, dinkleberg's shouldn't demote tiefling lesbian without first promoting someone who at the very least doesn't hate women and minorities, which is apparently harder than you'd think. not a fan of where i think this community would go without at least one person as a counterbalance to certain elements of the admin team who consistently excuse or participate in creepy, misogynistic, or discriminatory behavior.

in conclusion, it's the cliques bro it's just the cliques

[tiefling lesbian]

Going to use screenshots to reply, since you've disabled the ability to copy text from the doc for some reason?



I love that you've started out with this, because it perfectly exemplifies how poorly founded and wildly uninformed these arguments are (at best, intentionally disingenuous at worst). First off, I didn't mistakenly change the edit perms to the guidelines, Bryan did. Second, the first thing I did when I found out was revert the changes and change the link to a copy with the correct perms and asked Bryan about it. After making sure everything was in order, yes, I investigated who was behind it, are you arguing that admins shouldn't look into a group of people vandalizing the guidelines? It didn't take much "digging", it took 2 seconds to see that there were 5 people in vc in your server and 5 people looking at the guidelines. And this is me "throwing guilt" (one person approaching me about it and me asking the active staff member to report it next time).




I was invited to dong's server by jack after I asked a couple friends if they were in vc while they were in dong's server. It's not my fault that so much rule breaking happens in there, and I'm sorry for having the gall to not simply ignore it happening so blatantly. It's also funny how confidently you say you're "sure there are multiple cases", considering it's the only outside server I've joined that isn't run by friends. I'm also curious who I've "harassed and bullied"??



The "two" accounts you're referring to are the same account. You made an alt with the purposes of presenting as a grasse alt, multiple circumstances supported it appearing as a grasse alt, and someone from your group told me it was a grasse alt of their own volition. It's weird that you think private servers can't be used as evidence, but think they should be used to personally ask for unbans to circumvent the regular appeal procedure. I had no confirmation that it was your account other than you claiming so, and funnily enough, it DIDN'T show up as your account in DAC after it was unbanned. Also, all of this was only discussed in staff chat, so thank you for admitting to leaking.





This is just straight up 100% a lie? I didn't reach out to anyone from your server after the ban except you and dong, which was only about the ban. That conversation with foxka is from THEM reaching out to ME to ask about my opinion on their potential staff application, which was not made yet at the time of that conversation as you claim. I never asked them nor anyone else to spy on your server, I said it was a bad look for potential staff to not mention rule breaking that they were directly informed about, and that reporting it would have been an easy way to build trust and show that they can be unbiased, which I stand by 100%. And as you can see from them getting staff, I do not have the power to single-handedly approve or deny someone's application in your absurd hypothetical negotiation. Me asking about salty's discord was for an entirely unrelated investigation into staff leaks (maybe not so unrelated after all it looks like), which you can see by the fact that it was over a month before the guidelines incident, and they weren't the only one I asked about it. It's also pretty funny that you included foxka initially lying about being told about the guidelines vandalism.



As you can see in the screenshots, he apologized for the smurphy stuff, not for the slur. "Makes sense!" is, in fact, all he had to say on that matter.



I haven't "leaked and harassed" anyone from your server. As for the screenshot, your summary is in fact the opposite of what I was saying. I have said from the beginning that the reason specifics can't be given out is because it would betray the anonymity afforded to victims and open them to potential backlash. This was proven correct when information about the victims was leaked and someone was harassed as a result, which is what I was referring to.



This is, as you say, baseless hearsay utterly devoid of evidence.



So, first off, cozy cafe isn't my server? I don't even have any perms there. Secondly, and more importantly, after all your accusations of leaking and spying, your big piece of "evidence" is... you asking someone to leak a private discord in which women vent to each other about their frustrations with, primarily, misogyny in and out of the community? Like, surely you realize that you just admitted to literally doing the exact thing you're accusing me of, right? You even allude to other people you and dong have spying in there in your conversation.