[Avi]

*snip because that's a long post to quote*

snip

*more snip*

By you saying he lied or failed to do his job as an admin in the Price situation is again, inappropriate to point fingers and call someone a liar and failure.  It was clearly stated what he was aware of and not aware of, and it's difficult to know everything going on in a server as admin unless someone directly points you to the situation.  Again, being in the same position at one point, as admin you're thrown a million different things on TTT for a lot of different situations happening, and it can be hard to keep track of everything at once.  From what I know of the situation, he was working on the donor abuse but was never given adequate information regarding the other situation with Price to warrant action against it.  So I don't see how that's a failure as an admin, when he was doing what he could based off of what he knew.

And side note 114 hours in 5 months is more than enough as tenure as admin, Im not sure why that's an argument when that averages to over the 5 hours a week an admin is required to have to be considered "active" anyways, and that doesn't include any work outside of the server on the Discord/forums/backend.  So Im sure it's more than 114 hours of commitment in 5 months.

And since you brought it into this discussion, I will reference this: "Additionally, when I came back to TTT Mod last year, I was not actually resigned for a year. My rank was never removed and I didn't go to anyone to have it restored either (that was in January of this year, after you had already resigned). I quietly came back and effectively staffed the server for a month before even rejoining the appropriate channels of the Staff Discord. I didn't ask for some major promotion thereafter, either."
You resigned from the position, meaning your full intention was to give up the rank.  I think it's completely wrong to come back "quietly" and act as you never resigned from staff, and keep that rank, effectively unresigning yourself in silence.  And again comparing it to what Dong did, he was offered a position as admin and asked to step in as mod first to officially rejoin the community, and taking the steps to regain that position.  He didn't just sneak back in and reclaim a rank and ask for a promotion.  Again comparing your situation and his is comparing apples and oranges.

[Ckg]

My responses are in red
And I really don't think I'm being nitpicky. I'm just genuinely confused how people, especially those that never staff under him as a Moderator, are praising how great of an admin Dong was. I don't think there really is anything to show for his less than 114 hours and 5 months of being an admin, much of which was spent inactive as he was busy with life priorities.

This is an unfounded attack because admins are supposed to have 10 hours every 2 weeks, and if you you did the math you would see that at 5 hours a week (10 every 2 weeks) for 5 months would lead to 100 hours total, meanining that Dong's 114 hours fell in excess of what he was required to have. It seems, though, that you are holding him to what you believe to be the necessitated amount of time and are faulting him for that. While those thoughts are allowed, they should not be used as a means to attack people. The server rules are what we should go by, not someone's arbitrary thoughts on what "proper activity" should be.  Calling him inactive, when going off the requirements of the serven he was (by definition of the server rules) not inactive, is just a way of projecting your own beliefs in front of the server rules.

Additionally, when I came back to TTT Mod last year, I was not actually resigned for a year. My rank was never removed and I didn't go to anyone to have it restored either (that was in January of this year, after you had already resigned). I quietly came back and effectively staffed the server for a month before even rejoining the appropriate channels of the Staff Discord. I didn't ask for some major promotion thereafter, either.

I would argue that this is worse than coming back because you resigned, then took advantage of the fact that your rank was not removed to continue staffing without the proper approval when you shouldn't have been.  Since you resigned you were not supposed to be staff, the fact that you "quietly came back" just means that you entirely disregarded the proper channels of getting your rank back.  What would have happened if someone made an abuse thread against you in that time period or something similar?  It would have caused a shit show because you were not supposed to be staff, not to mention how not being in the staff discord meant you were out of the loop on the situations in the server (i.e not banning/kicking/slaying someone in case people are still trying to collect evidence). By shirking the proper channels to becoming staff again you were setting up a much worse situation than just simply trying to come back through the correct channels. You took advantage of the fact that your rank was not removed like it should have been and are now lauding that as something that should be praise-worthy.

edit: While writing this it seems like Avi already responded to these points, but I'll just throw in my two-cents.

[La Flama Blanca]

snip

Avi, for the third time, the situation was mentioned numerous times in the staff Discord by multiple staff members. I already said that I don't expect the admins to be apprised of someone listed in the watchlist once or twice, but when they are mentioned over and over again, I do.

You're right about the hours during his admin tenure. I'll focus on the 18 hours in 8 months instead.

snip

Those are fair criticisms, but I would note that I am not going to, nor have I, applied for TTT Admin.

never gonna understand people who use threads like this to put others down over situations that they had no control over while simultaneously putting themselves up on a pedestal

I am not intending to "put others down" here. I am assessing what I consider his job performance. If you or others can't see the difference between the personal and "professional," then I don't know what else I can do. And many of these situations were within control, as Nicol managed to get rid of the committee system very soon after Dong resigned. And reading the staff Discord is well within control.

[dong]

This thread has gotten to the point of people either A) refusing to read the fine print in what I spent an hour typing up, or B) refusing to see how they’re wrong. My activity is an issue yes, but for the 15,000th time I mentioned that in the beginning of this whole thing and it was never an issue with the two admins and dink. So now all of a sudden my character and credibility are being put into question? I appreciate the criticism, but if you’re going to be a condescending manchild to me take it to my dms, don’t make a fool out of yourself. I also can’t even fully defend myself and bring up even more examples because that’s gonna somehow backfire on me. Most of the points have already been made and I don’t find myself in a position to need to defend myself, so if you will please let me enjoy the rest of my day moving into my new place.

[La Flama Blanca]

This thread has gotten to the point of people either A) refusing to read the fine print in what I spent an hour typing up, or B) refusing to see how they’re wrong. My activity is an issue yes, but for the 15,000th time I mentioned that in the beginning of this whole thing and it was never an issue with the two admins and dink. So now all of a sudden my character and credibility are being put into question? I appreciate the criticism, but if you’re going to be a condescending manchild to me take it to my dms, don’t make a fool out of yourself. I also can’t even fully defend myself and bring up even more examples because that’s gonna somehow backfire on me. Most of the points have already been made and I don’t find myself in a position to need to defend myself, so if you will please let me enjoy the rest of my day moving into my new place.

No one questioned your character. They questioned your time as admin and the time between when you stopped being an admin and you posting this application. The fact that you just resorted to calling me a "condescending manchild" when I have chosen to critique your tenure as admin tells me that you are nowhere near ready to be in a position of the highest power in our community.

[dong]

@"Prince Nicky De Lay Ley" if you read what you’ve said to me this entire thread it was quite condescending and an attack in some way shape or form onto me. Your opinion is your opinion, but you didn’t have to be rude to me dude

[Avi]

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more snip

So lets set facts straight with Price because Im being told another story. Apparently there wasn't enough proof to ban, so they were working behind the scenes to get enough to ban him, there was discussion if it should be a community ban, and you took matters into your own hands? Were you in any part of this behind the scenes discussion or did you just act on your own instinct?

Also you're missing some details about committees. Back when I was admin and committees were already implemented, I tried to fix the system that was set in place, and Nicol stepped into admin and wanted to remove committees. I said no at the time because they were still active. However, after awhile, staff became inactive and committees started falling apart. I resigned, Nicol rearranged how committees worked, dong stepped into admin, continued committees, and they were removed after his resignation. They continued to try to fix them until he left, then Nicol took it into his own hands to remove them. Again as stated earlier, they were bound to fail with inactivity from staff, which isn't something any admin can control.

[La Flama Blanca]

@"Prince Nicky De Lay Ley" if you read what you’ve said to me this entire thread it was quite condescending and an attack in some way shape or form onto me. Your opinion is your opinion, but you didn’t have to be rude to me dude

I have attempted to provide the community with my feedback and assessment of your tenure as an admin. Much of my assessment was negative. I don't consider providing my opinion to be an "attack in some way shape or form onto me." I would expect an admin to be able to handle legitimate criticism without interpreting it as a personal attack on their character. I have repeatedly stated that I like you as a person and want to see you succeed.

I find it amusing that you are taking my criticism so negatively, considering this post that you wrote upon your resignation. I'm just trying to have my voice heard here, even though it is a voice that you may not want to hear.

Suggestion #5 
You want to fix shit? Don't be afraid to ban people, don't be afraid to deny applications, don't be afraid to speak your mind to someone who has authority. Your voice deserves to be heard. I pushed that shit throughout my staff tenure lmao.

[Ckg]

snip

Those are fair criticisms, but I would note that I am not going to, nor have I, applied for TTT Admin.

I do not see how not having applied for TTT Admin makes the situation any different. You still came back in a way that skirted around the whole process, regardless of what rank it was for or what rank you ambition to acquire it was still an innapropriate method to return to staff. Trying to compare this with Dong coming back is a complete non-sequitur and the fact that you brought it up in a way that was meant to disparage the way that he returned is wholly unfair and unjustified.

never gonna understand people who use threads like this to put others down over situations that they had no control over while simultaneously putting themselves up on a pedestal

I am not intending to "put others down" here. I am assessing what I consider his job performance. If you or others can't see the difference between the personal and "professional," then I don't know what else I can do. And many of these situations were within control, as Nicol managed to get rid of the committee system very soon after Dong resigned. And reading the staff Discord is well within control.

While Dong had the power to remove the committee system, he was not an admin when it was established or going through the beginning stages (reference: https://www.dinklebergsgmod.com/site/sho...=committee), therefore him trying to make it work should not be faulted.  I was TTT staff when it was first introduced and it seemed like the general consensus at the time was that it was a good change to the norm. In hindsight, it was a flawed system but this is much easier to say after it has been removed than when it was still trying to be fixed.    It was also, most likely, easier for Nicol to remove it entirely than it was for Dong because Nicol was admin when it was first implemented and was thus able to see the whole process unfold as an admin and then pull the plug accordingly. Therefore, Dong was not misguided in his attempts to fix said system. By trying to fix the committee system he was still trying to make a positive change and should not be faulted for that.

[Mana]

I think yall need to take some time to unwind or something