[bunniey]

actually decided i dont really care theres not enough here thats tangible and the one damning thing has no evidence

theres more nut its still nothing enough, just a "wow theyre kinda strange and a bit hypocritical but who isnt" stuff

also in case theres any of these thoughts on this, i wasnt involved and only just now found out i was even mentioned, despite it just being as an example okokok

[chelllman]

-snip

imagine if a staff member A went to player B and said "hey so X server, yeah, lemme know if Y occurs there; im not in that server". That is straightforwards a mole. That is some secret police gestapo shit. That is also gross and unethical.

-snip-

-snip-

Alichay. I am pretty sure you are in discords that are outside of dinks. I know almost certainly that you are. Would it not be wrong/gross/creepy if, say, I were to ask a person in your private discord to drag up literally anything to incriminate you and get you banned from dinks/wherever?

yes! this would be fucking creepy and gross and strange. (and probably illegal to boot for some kind of internet harassment and stalking law.)(also, fucking yuck)

-snip-

But it is not your nor my place to create essentially secret police to investigate people we don't agree with for the purpose of banning them from a community for trumped up allegations, is it?

obviously, yes. report illegal shit like p*dos. they deserve punishment. but like, Someone said a bad word in a place that isn't Dinks by a far shot? nah.

BIIG_SAD, what did I just post this week about communicating better? These responses from you further highlight that you absolutely should not ascend to PH admin. You've deliberately chosen to use very divisive language here and make a comparison between the alleged behavior of an admin of a drama-filled online community to one of the most evil organizations to ever exist? Admins are meant to deescalate, be objective, and most importantly wait to draw conclusions until they feel they have enough evidence to pass judgement.  "Secret police"? What in the world are you on about. This just makes me embarrassed that you were even promoted to mod for PH at this point because as a mod you are supposed to be a leader.

I don't agree with everything Tiefling has said or done during her tenure as TTT admin, but I'm not going to just take everything in the document at face value without at least reading her response first. You immediately took everything at face value and started drawing some of the most wild comparisons I've ever seen a staff member make. For example, there's a critical mistake in even the first charge made in the document, so it definitely warrants a close look for accuracy (which you did not do). At this point, I would rather PH have no admin forever than let you have the rank after these replies you made.


*EDIT* - Rand DM'd me letting me know about a different leak than I was thinking of so my comment was about something else.

[Nate]

I won’t comment much about the doc, but I think one of the biggest issues is that I know of very few that DO trust Tiefling as an admin. I have discussed this topic with several regulars and other staff members; even Prop Hunt staff. Outside of her friends, not one has told me they trust Tiefling. I have been told by multiple people that they believe she is too biased and incompetent to be staff, let alone admin. That she is untrustworthy and even her style of staffing is something to question. That she has burned several bridges and lacks the communication skills to repair any relationships within the community. I will say that a lot of this Google doc is irrelevant (a lot of it is relevant as well), but for me, the lack of trust by a huge margin of the community is something to look into.

[frost]

probably should do more research before making a document like this, seems like you got a lot of it wrong and used your personal biases on most of it.

[Super Milk Chan]

The meme below is the reason for my post, but I better add some input so my shit dose not get removed.

Staffing on multiple servers is not a problem. no one owes the community anything. There is some genuine feedback mixed in that I agree with, people are overly sensitive to common words and terms, intention should always be taken into account over the use of a word all together, this is so much less effort for everyone as well.

I don't like the way this is being presented, the best way to deal with a problem from someone is to take it on one subject at a time. Putting it all into this long ass post has me questioning the actual intention behind something like this, it's hard to address and even harder to come to a conclusion all party's can be happy with and is the reason why it is hard to look at something like this and not see it as a attack. anyway i'm not staff anymore, shut the fuck up.

[Dildo Shwaggins]

Reading the responses and sleeping on the document, I have some more brief but big-picture issues that I think led to a lot of the recent fiasco.

1. Chris Farley said it pretty well- lack of trust in the administration is the core of the issue. And I think one of the lack of trust’s largest factor is the overreach. The messages to several community members of “hey are you in this discord” for example are stepping  too far. Also in tiefling’s response, correct me if I’m wrong on reading this, but it seems like the part of “ignoring rule violations” is overstepping as well if  if it’s giving the implication of applying Dink’s rules to servers that are not under Dink’s administration purview. That’s not to say if for example someone is actively being stalked or harassed in Dink’s and is getting followed or also harassed in another space that relevant evidence can’t come from that if the victim or a concerned netizen comes forward, but actively patrolling and applying Dink’s rules to outside servers is overreach that should be curtailed.

2. A bit adjacent to that, the recent server culture has been to backhandedly gather “dirt” on community members by “leaks” and the like. By making so many interactions and things so public, it’s inevitable that people are going to see shit talked about them on all sides and it will be impossible in the “mutual” space- the forums, main discord, etc it makes it damn near impossible to be civil when you saw that same person saying something behind their back. And this is something that’s really hard if not impossible to remedy in an online space with relative anonymity. Personally? I think “let people talk their shit in their own spaces, but be civil in mutual spaces” has been the MO of the whole server for a while and has kept things civil, in a way. When someone goes too far, it should be handled of course. But the culture has shifted towards everything being “open” to the point of if you wanted to find dirt on anyone, you can find it if you search hard enough.

3. Clearer guidelines for “poaching” are needed. Regardless of who cares or doesn’t care beyond Dink himself, it should be something clarified in staff guidelines as to whether it’s acceptable at all, for certain levels of staff, etc

4. The edit of what I was thinking of- the division in the community overall. There is an overarching feel of Dink’s now being two separate communities at odds with each other and slinging shit back and forth with  major allegations that are difficult to verify without either exposing someone to the risk of retaliation or are baseless as they lacked or misconstrued context. And that division has kinda been happening for a few years in this community. That’s not to say having your own discords is a bad thing, having friends is okay. But many of the most active members of the community have definitely been more in their own spaces as opposed to doing things together as a community and as more people developed feuds or had different visions for the community, the split went further until things collapsed into a mess. Lemon’s thread was a good example of the level of division that this community is at, and it’s gotten ugly as to what lengths people will go and tactics they will use to try and forward their vision of the community. (Tl;Dr this place feels like the US Congress)

[Noire ♜]

First of all, I'd like to remind everyone that Tiefling Lesbian is an Admin, she should be held at a higher standard.

1. Prior to you posting, I was told that it was Bryan and not you that mistakenly changed the perms for the guidelines, as soon as I found out I posted a disclaimer and struck through your name and replaced it with Bryan's. My bad.
   
2. As far as you looking into the people behind the changing of the guidelines, how are five people sitting in a call instantly guilty for one or two editing the guidelines. Also your hyperlink on 'throwing guilt" is literally jack giving you as much information as possible to avoid the claim that he had something to do with it, dude's saving his ass because he's talking to an admin who already think's he's guilty. 
   
3. "It's not my fault that so much rule breaking happens in there, and I'm sorry for having the gall to not simply ignore it happening so blatantly." What rule breaking are you referring to and who's responsibility is it to be a mandated reporter of all dinkle-rule breaking. The entire point is that separate discords are completely autonomous from Dinkleberg's Servers and that 'evidence' from those discords should not be used against players-- of course there are important exceptions. 
   
   
4. "The "two" accounts you're referring to are the same account." They are not "It's weird that you think private servers can't be used as evidence, but think they should be used to personally ask for unbans to circumvent the regular appeal procedure." No, it's weird that you falsely banned my alt account and then instead of just unbanning it once shown evidence you asked me to take it to the forums. Also, the reason that specific account has not shown up among my other alts is because I now know how to get around the alt checker and that account was one of the first to test if it worked, it did. 
   
   
5. "I said it was a bad look for potential staff to not mention rule breaking that they were directly informed about, and that reporting it would have been an easy way to build trust and show that they can be unbiased" "If you leak private discords to me I'll trust you more and if you don't that's a bad look for you!"
   
   
6. The smurfy situation and the slur situation are one in the same.
   
   
7. You use evidence gathered from Shenanigans in order to ban people. You also repeatedly DM'd anyone you could reaching out to find more information on the topic. 
   
   
8. "This was proven correct when information about the victims was leaked and someone was harassed as a result" Kinda crazy this harassment isn't talked about more, especially when no one harassed anyone about the situation?
   
   
9. It is utterly devoid of evidence, however, those claims were made by people very close to you regardless. 
   
   
10. The Wall of Shame might have started as a way for victims to come forward about their actions but apparently it did not stay that way forever. It was not barred to only women. The difference between you and I is that I only asked for evidence and clarification from various parties to make this post, you were just generally collecting it -- Purposefully asking people to gather. The only evidence I personally sought out was for the existence of this Wall of Shame.
    
    
11. If I recall correctly, there were three active discord staff members, one of which being you. All of you refused to stop the actively devolving situation. Slow mode takes less effort than making small talk. Again, you're an admin. We are supposed to hold you in a higher regard.
    
    
12. "I'm struggling to see how this is at all relevant or anything other than you reaching for any semblance of "evidence" you can possibly fabricate." You're an admin, you should know how your server works.
    
    
13. "You have also once again demonstrated that you have no issue with sending someone from your clique to another server for the purposes of spying and leaking." No one from 'our clique' sent her, she was in there before I even knew of the server's existence. Also, spying and leaking is wild on this because it is a public discord server of a public TTT server! It's the main home page, not a text chat. 
    

[Ryan]

I won’t comment much about the doc, but I think one of the biggest issues is that I know of very few that DO trust Tiefling as an admin. I have discussed this topic with several regulars and other staff members; even Prop Hunt staff. Outside of her friends, not one has told me they trust Tiefling. [...] the lack of trust by a huge margin of the community is something to look into.

Thank you for saving me from having to think today... This pretty much sums up my thoughts. I regret not posting it on the admin app about how divisive even the topic of tiefling was, but I considered myself too new at the time to have a valid opinion. One of my other gripes about you as an admin is that you dont talk in the server. Or barely do. You not having a mic came up in your admin app, but what really should have been brought up is your lack of interaction with the community when you play.

I dont think any of what Chris or I have said rises to the point of demotion. I just ask that you hear our concerns with open ears.

[CrAcKbOnE]

Got here before the thread got closed!

No way am I reading all this, just gonna throw out a few points regarding this whole clique war:

1. Everyone who says Tiefling staffing at a high level or owning different servers isn't a problem is a fucking idiot or just blindly biased. If she was neutral with everyone it would still be debatable, but it's clear from what has been provided that she dislikes a large chunk of the community so do you honestly think that kind of dynamic is healthy and can't cause harm to the server? Wtf even is "conflict of interest"? Also we still can't even mention that "one" server without getting in trouble from staff let alone have a prominent member of the community be an owner of another server.

2. The whole drama on the forums has been handeled terribly. I missed the drama on discord but seems it was handled simularly (aka not handled at all). To be fair the forum part is probably more Gabes fault, but the whole thing was definetly sided towards for tieflings clique. Everyone was warned several times to stop discussing this drama and when everyone kept going pretty much nothing was done. While yes, letting Volfs terrible post cook was great it doesn't change that It shouldn't have gotten to that point in the first place. Forbidden topics used to be removed or closed off as soon as possible. When Matt was in charge or at least closed when they devolved into mud slinging and during this whole ordeal the majority of the posts did end up like that. Anything that could have been classified as such should have been closed no matter what side the post was. Out of all the admins Tiefling def had the most influence with her clique during this drama and didn't do anything to discourage everyone and I would argue that she actively participated in it.

[茶 Tea]

11. spying on private discords to collect evidence of minor rulebreaking is crazy
12. expecting others to spy on private discords to collect evidence of minor rulebreaking is crazy
13. FOXKA FUCKING ASKED i don't know why you have such a hardon about foxka asking a question and getting an answer. you have much more compelling evidence as i've mentioned multiple times on this thread
14. anyone who still blames cliques as a major dinkletributing factor to the current drama needs to take a step back and realize that what you're saying is fucking stupid
15. making an 18-page google doc where you accuse others of spying on private discords and then expecting others to spy on private discords to collect evidence of minor rulebreaking is crazy

and i don't need anyone but

---

p.s. i would like to reiterate that tiefling lesbian is quite frankly the only ttt admin who cares about the rampant misogyny in this server so if people don't trust her as admin i question many of their motives. that said she also takes the rules of a garry's mod server somewhat too seriously so i kind of get it. i got banned from the discord for saying this but it's true. too many of our upper staff are willing to excuse the misogyny and racism on this server and if it kicks off a month of dinkledrama then that's their own fucking fault.

edited for clarity