[GamerErnie46257]

I have 3 fingers total. There is no way I can hold a grapple hook AND exploit at the same time. case closed.

[happy]

I'd like to know.. why hasn't this been a problem in the past 3 years? Why is this being griped on only in the past few months? I feel like something broke between now and then..

it's been counted as an exploit for like a yr or 2

[Gabeolo]

 
In conclusion, re-add the double barrel shotgun and make it a D item.

Hey so that was removed because I found an exploit that lets you autofire all bullets in your reserve without reloading. Not to burst the bubble but I'm not experienced enough in lua to know what the hell is going on so it probably won't ever be readded.

fuck you add it back and call it the super shotgun

[Nicol Bolas]

Hey let's keep the thread on track why don't we.

[lacer]

Hey let's keep the thread on track why don't we.

Nice dedicated response

[Nicol Bolas]

Ok fine dedicated response time.

I'm gonna keep this short. You cannot accurately compare bhopping and exploiting the grappling hook to gain horizontal momentum. Bhopping is purely skill-based, while really anyone can exploit the grappling hook provided they know what they're doing. Bhopping is largely contained within the limits of the map's ground-space, meaning it becomes increasingly difficult the more abnormal the layout of the map. It's a reason those who like to bhop prefer larger, flatter maps. Meanwhile the grapple exploit can be done on basically any map with open space regardless of the layout and allows a version of flight to a limited extent, making it much more difficult to properly kill a player. Not to mention that the exploit also gains and keeps momentum much quicker than b-hopping. This is why it is banned and will continue to be banned.

As I mentioned in my original post this largely comes down to a balance between how much we are wanting to nerf things for a competitive sake and the overall fun environment of the server. You cannot balance this game like you would another game like CS:GO, Overwatch, or R6. This is a 16-year old game running on a 17-year old engine, on a modified gamemode with almost 50+ different addons made by different developers. What all those past and present have worked towards was making the server enjoyable for as many people as possible. I also believe the server has succeeded in that aspect, as we have a decently-sized player base who enjoy and play on the server regularly with no shortages of new players. 

 In terms of the jumppack add-on we use, I fully against removing it entirely and will be until a better alternative is available. For those of you who didn't see it, I suggest reading @Gabe's post he made on it by clicking here. If we're able to find a better alternative by all means suggest them however a flat removal has too many inconsistencies. 


TLDR: B-hopping =/= grapple exploiting. Hard to compare them to begin with but I can see why they are. At this time, the jumppack will be staying. There are arguments to be made on both sides but at this time I feel as though the arguments to keep the jump pack have more footing. 

[lacer]

Ok fine dedicated response time.

I'm gonna keep this short. You cannot accurately compare bhopping and exploiting the grappling hook to gain horizontal momentum. Bhopping is purely skill-based, while really anyone can exploit the grappling hook provided they know what they're doing. Bhopping is largely contained within the limits of the map's ground-space, meaning it becomes increasingly difficult the more abnormal the layout of the map. It's a reason those who like to bhop prefer larger, flatter maps. Meanwhile the grapple exploit can be done on basically any map with open space regardless of the layout and allows a version of flight to a limited extent, making it much more difficult to properly kill a player. Not to mention that the exploit also gains and keeps momentum much quicker than b-hopping. This is why it is banned and will continue to be banned.

If this is your argument, then going vertical with the grapple hook and strafing to gain speed should also be banned because anyone can do it, it can be done on any map, and you can indeed gain and keep momentum quicker than you can bhopping, making it harder to kill a player. You also failed to address people who put their entire hitbox in the ceiling and crouchspam, which also makes it extremely difficult to properly kill a player.

As I mentioned in my original post this largely comes down to a balance between how much we are wanting to nerf things for a competitive sake and the overall fun environment of the server. You cannot balance this game like you would another game like CS:GO, Overwatch, or R6. This is a 16-year old game running on a 17-year old engine, on a modified gamemode with almost 50+ different addons made by different developers. What all those past and present have worked towards was making the server enjoyable for as many people as possible. I also believe the server has succeeded in that aspect, as we have a decently-sized player base who enjoy and play on the server regularly with no shortages of new players. 

No comment.

 In terms of the jumppack add-on we use, I fully against removing it entirely and will be until a better alternative is available. For those of you who didn't see it, I suggest reading @Gabe's post he made on it by clicking here. If we're able to find a better alternative by all means suggest them however a flat removal has too many inconsistencies. 

Inconsistency has never been an issue of concern before, why is it being brought up now? The jump pack allows players to jump higher and negate a bit of fall damage, yes, but it also allows players to exploit with the grappling hook or completely destroy their hitbox, making them unkillable. Need proof? Watch players like Inkse, Ice_Phoenix_2, Mocha, etc. We classify the grapple hook horizontal movement as an exploit because it makes it significantly harder to kill a player, but we don't classify putting your hitbox in the ceiling or crouchspamming the same way. Inconsistency is the last thing that should be brought up in this situation, honestly.

TLDR: B-hopping =/= grapple exploiting. Hard to compare them to begin with but I can see why they are. At this time, the jumppack will be staying. There are arguments to be made on both sides but at this time I feel as though the arguments to keep the jump pack have more footing. 

No comment.

I'll send you a pic of my cat if you can guess what color my responses are in

[Hello Kitty]

Ok fine dedicated response time.

I'm gonna keep this short. You cannot accurately compare bhopping and exploiting the grappling hook to gain horizontal momentum. Bhopping is purely skill-based, while really anyone can exploit the grappling hook provided they know what they're doing. Bhopping is largely contained within the limits of the map's ground-space, meaning it becomes increasingly difficult the more abnormal the layout of the map. It's a reason those who like to bhop prefer larger, flatter maps. Meanwhile the grapple exploit can be done on basically any map with open space regardless of the layout and allows a version of flight to a limited extent, making it much more difficult to properly kill a player. Not to mention that the exploit also gains and keeps momentum much quicker than b-hopping. This is why it is banned and will continue to be banned.

If this is your argument, then going vertical with the grapple hook and strafing to gain speed should also be banned because anyone can do it, it can be done on any map, and you can indeed gain and keep momentum quicker than you can bhopping, making it harder to kill a player. You also failed to address people who put their entire hitbox in the ceiling and crouchspam, which also makes it extremely difficult to properly kill a player.

As I mentioned in my original post this largely comes down to a balance between how much we are wanting to nerf things for a competitive sake and the overall fun environment of the server. You cannot balance this game like you would another game like CS:GO, Overwatch, or R6. This is a 16-year old game running on a 17-year old engine, on a modified gamemode with almost 50+ different addons made by different developers. What all those past and present have worked towards was making the server enjoyable for as many people as possible. I also believe the server has succeeded in that aspect, as we have a decently-sized player base who enjoy and play on the server regularly with no shortages of new players. 

No comment.

 In terms of the jumppack add-on we use, I fully against removing it entirely and will be until a better alternative is available. For those of you who didn't see it, I suggest reading @Gabe's post he made on it by clicking here. If we're able to find a better alternative by all means suggest them however a flat removal has too many inconsistencies. 

Inconsistency has never been an issue of concern before, why is it being brought up now? The jump pack allows players to jump higher and negate a bit of fall damage, yes, but it also allows players to exploit with the grappling hook or completely destroy their hitbox, making them unkillable. Need proof? Watch players like Inkse, Ice_Phoenix_2, Mocha, etc. We classify the grapple hook horizontal movement as an exploit because it makes it significantly harder to kill a player, but we don't classify putting your hitbox in the ceiling or crouchspamming the same way. Inconsistency is the last thing that should be brought up in this situation, honestly.

TLDR: B-hopping =/= grapple exploiting. Hard to compare them to begin with but I can see why they are. At this time, the jumppack will be staying. There are arguments to be made on both sides but at this time I feel as though the arguments to keep the jump pack have more footing. 

No comment.

I'll send you a pic of my cat if you can guess what color my responses are in

the blue one

also learn how to counter strafe

[dero]

Alright let me bring up another point. Surfing. You can do it on a few maps. Off the top of my head dimsdale and fastfood. Surfing, very similar to the grapple exploit, is very simple to execute once you know how to do it. You can stop someone doing it by getting in front of them but when they are going fast enough they can just launch off the ramp at any point to avoid being stopped. As far as I know we don’t punish for that.

The point of this thread is not to start hostility. I just wanted to see what people’s opinion on the subject like a debate. Just kinda wanted to clarify that.

[The Dutch Problem]

Personally I am heavily against B-hopping, the Grapple exploit and surfing, mainly because of the extra velocity at least for me as the annoying effect of making the hitboxes of people I shoot at either non-existant or just sponges. Yes its partially because if I do come on I have 100+ ping wich doesnt help...

I really take it as exploits wich should not be allowed, sure I agree B-hopping takes skill and I aint gonna argue that. But if it accellerates people to nigh unhittable levels of speed I stand against it. I myself do not have much ire against the headglitch thing but at the same time I have had problems with it, *and likely I do it without realizing* so if we are going to stand against the others, I will agree that this one has to be adressed as well.