[TheSixthBaku]

It has come to my attention that this is a very successful and busy server. It gets a lot of traffic on the game servers, the discord, and even the forums. I have also studied a bit of the 'ways of the world' while being a part of this community. There are a lot of guidelines posted on the forums, discord, and even passed down by word of mouth that I want to talk about and give my honest opinion on.

With such a busy server, we get a lot of really cool people coming in who want to play videogames with likeminded individuals. We also get our fair share of trolls. Complete assholes who would rather laugh at people than with people. I'd like to talk a little bit about the good and the bad today, and get some opinions and feedback. I know that I do not have much of a presence here... and I am working on changing that. I also know many of you will likely offer a bit of backlash due to what I say, and thats also ok. I welcome respectful comments, as these are only opinions that I have, and I do not intend for them to be seen as "facts".

Although, I would hope that some may agree with me.

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First off... When it comes to the rules here... Every time I load into the game I see as a #1 Rule posted on the loading screen... "No Trolling". I see this, and I smile, because I know that I can play a game without worrying about being hounded by people trying to incite a reaction. That type of harassment is what usually drives me away from servers, and I take solace in the idea that it is openly frowned upon at Dinkleberg's.

However, I still see it. And I know no one can be perfect. We can't catch it all. I understand that. That being said, I all too often see people saying things and picking on people to a point of discomfort. I really wish we were a bit more strict on this. I think that when a staff member sees someone exhibiting certain behavior, they should be able o use their personal discretion with extreme prejudice. Any time someone makes comments repeatedly that affect the mood and demeanor of the entire lobby, I think it should be dealt with swiftly. Harassing Staff or individuals who are just trying to have a good time is easily recorded, and therefore, I am unsure why I see so many donos and staff tip-toeing around in the tulips with Trolls.


Personally, I think the server would be a more open and welcoming place for the good eggs, if we dealt with the bad eggs... more efficiently. Now to move on to my second statement.


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The current order of operations (As I have come to understand it) Is basically "Warn, Warn, Warn, (optional warn), (Optional warn), Gag, Mute, Kick, and then either seek help from higher staff, or Put in a ban request". I have an issue with this logically. Kicking someone doesn't necessarily harm their experience in our server. Sure, you could argue that they lose their current K/D and that may effect their end-of-round rewards... But if they are being problematic, that's not an issue anyways, because we wouldn't want them to continue playing on the server. Meanwhile, gag/mute takes away the communication aspect of the game, which arguably is half the fun of most of our offered gamemodes. This highly affects these persons' gameplay and experience on the server. Furthermore, if a troll is saying rude or off-color things, and they ignore the warnings, gagging and muting them harms any chances of us recording evidence of how they are acting.

For example, If a troll is harassing a user, and a mod asks them politely to stop, and the troll ignored 3 warnings. If the moderator is recording, and ends up Gagging then Muting the offender, that's where this all stops. There's not enough evidence to take the situation further, or pursue a harsher punishment. The troll will get bored, eventually leave, and come back later on to harass others when the moderator is offline.

However... If we use the same example, and swap up the order a bit... It tends to logically play out differently. In this hypothetical example: Troll starts harassing people, Moderator warns 3 times, and the troll ignores the warnings. Moderator kicks the offender. The offender logs back in and does one of two things. Either the troll rages, and gets itself in more trouble (Evidence for us to record) or the troll wisens up and decides to play nicely. In my experience, more often than not, the former happens... and allows for great footage to be taken of the offender before the gag/mute is issued.

So in short, I think that the order should be revised to "Warn, Warn, Warn, (Op. Warn), (Op. Warn), Kick. Then if the behavior continues or worsens, Gag, Mute, Seek higher staff/put in ban req." This solves a few issues. Firstly, it allows a stern, yet subtle first step to be taken when warnings are not enough that still implies authority. An easily understood "Hey, if you don't follow the rules, you simply will not get to play here." On a secondary note, this doesn't prevent us from gathering evidence like mute/gag, and actually inspires better evidence collection. On a tertiary note, it also speeds up the process. If people become angry for getting kicked, and start spouting off slurs and horrible names... we can deal with the issue fullstop. This skips the idea of them coming back at a later time.

I would love to hear comments on this idea, as I do not claim to be perfect. DO you guys think this would help, or hinder, or have other comments? I'd very much like to talk about it.

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Lastly, it's hard to find good help. Being someone who has worked, and put in 14 hour shifts before to pay bills and feed my kids, I get this. I have been a manager/supervisor in the workforce, and I get that you can only do so much. I have seen our staff work VERY hard to make our servers as fluid and safe and fun as they can be. I am in NO way shape or form downplaying the effort of work that our team puts in. (Shout out to everyone on the staff team, you guys rock)

But I think it's pretty hard to deny that there's a shortage of moderation in some aspects of the game servers. While it may not be much of a lack of it, we still have blindspots. We likely will always have blindspots, we can agree upon that, but we can also combat them. I can infer that my idea is going to be less than acceptable to some, and thats ok. We are merely talking about all this. But I would make the suggestion that we ease up on the staff application requirements just a little.

While I am aware that there has been... issues... in the past... I think the servers could use a few more staff members. People get busy with life, and often don't have time to be here 24/7. While our current staff are wonderful, adding a few more to at least help patch out the blindspots would strengthen the team even more, and provide a more even distribution and completed coverage.

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All these are my thoughts and opinions! If you disagree, thats completely fine... you are welcome to disagree, I just as that you disagree civilly. And if you disagree, please let me know why! If you agree, please let me know why! Thank you all for taking the time to read this (I know it has been long) and I hope you guys can forgive me for any misinformation. I enjoy Dinklebergs Gmod, and hope to see many more come to enjoy it with us!

[voidzz]

ph suggestion here
ttt does not go like this and 3 warns into kick THEN mute/gag sounds like a bad idea lol

[Mana]

Man I aint reading all this

[chibill]

Yeah, was about to say, think this is pretty specific to Prophunt, Which has different staff guidelines and rules to say the TTT server.

For example these are the rules and the staff guidelines for prophunt
Rules: https://www.dinklebergsgmod.com/site/sho...p?tid=6815
Staff Guidelines: https://www.dinklebergsgmod.com/site/sho...p?tid=9611

And these are the rules and staff guidelines for the TTT server
Rules: https://www.dinklebergsgmod.com/site/sho....php?tid=4
Staff Guidelines: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wzuX...AewKX9xiqM

Personally I like how the PH server rules work. They are pretty good considering the voice chat isn't actually a key part of the game itself. (TTT uses voice chat alot gameplay wise, PH its just something nice.)

Also I have a feeling you haven't read the actual rules or what the staff have to do on PH since. For Toxic Trolling its a warn, round gag , map gag, then kick and finally a ban of some sort. Mic Spam is handled the same way.

Which is only slightly different from how we handle it on TTT when you think about it.

[chelllman]

I'm going to move this to PH suggestions.

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First off... When it comes to the rules here... Every time I load into the game I see as a #1 Rule posted on the loading screen... "No Trolling". I see this, and I smile, because I know that I can play a game without worrying about being hounded by people trying to incite a reaction. That type of harassment is what usually drives me away from servers, and I take solace in the idea that it is openly frowned upon at Dinkleberg's.

It's important to note that there is a difference between harmless and harmful trolling.  The rules page for the server when you load in has not been updated since...2018...at the latest.

However, I still see it. And I know no one can be perfect. We can't catch it all. I understand that. That being said, I all too often see people saying things and picking on people to a point of discomfort. I really wish we were a bit more strict on this. I think that when a staff member sees someone exhibiting certain behavior, they should be able o use their personal discretion with extreme prejudice. Any time someone makes comments repeatedly that affect the mood and demeanor of the entire lobby, I think it should be dealt with swiftly. Harassing Staff or individuals who are just trying to have a good time is easily recorded, and therefore, I am unsure why I see so many donos and staff tip-toeing around in the tulips with Trolls.

chibill posted a link to the PH staff guidelines.  The reason why we have guidelines is so that some subjectivity is removed and we know that each staff member is relatively consistent with how they enforce the rules on the server.  This helps us prevent things like: accusations of favoritism and widely different player experiences when different staff members are on.
As far as I know, staff don't tiptoe around trolls, though it may seem this way if you have a different definition of what constitutes trolling.  We have some new Trusted that are working on getting their footing, so if they seem unsure that's simply because they are learning.  While we have a lot of children that play on the server, we have plenty of adults that enjoy playing on the server as well.  As such, the server is not a "G or PG" rated server.  Some trolling is expected because of this, but as long as it's not too disruptive it's allowed with players having the ability to client-side mute players they don't want to hear.

Personally, I think the server would be a more open and welcoming place for the good eggs, if we dealt with the bad eggs... more efficiently. Now to move on to my second statement.

While I agree with this statement, it also depends on your definition of what a bad egg is.
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The current order of operations (As I have come to understand it) Is basically "Warn, Warn, Warn, (optional warn), (Optional warn), Gag, Mute, Kick, and then either seek help from higher staff, or Put in a ban request". I have an issue with this logically. Kicking someone doesn't necessarily harm their experience in our server. Sure, you could argue that they lose their current K/D and that may effect their end-of-round rewards... But if they are being problematic, that's not an issue anyways, because we wouldn't want them to continue playing on the server. Meanwhile, gag/mute takes away the communication aspect of the game, which arguably is half the fun of most of our offered gamemodes. This highly affects these persons' gameplay and experience on the server. Furthermore, if a troll is saying rude or off-color things, and they ignore the warnings, gagging and muting them harms any chances of us recording evidence of how they are acting.

chibill posted the staff guidelines, we don't have any protocol like that.  Staff do have discretion when it comes to warnings especially for kids breaking rules (since most young kids may not understand their mic had feedback, they are being super loud, etc), but in general it's a single lobby wide warning before gags/mutes.  As for kicking someone, players are far less likely to come back and play after a kick whereas a gag/mute allows them to keep playing.  Usually, players take the hint that they need to stop micspamming, verbal ghosting, etc. after a mute/gag.  That's punishment enough to get most to stop being a problem and they can still play during that time.  We have plenty of regulars who were once problems but obey the rules and have fun on the server after just a single gag/mute. We'd rather these players stay with our server instead of getting kicked and joining another server.

For example, If a troll is harassing a user, and a mod asks them politely to stop, and the troll ignored 3 warnings. If the moderator is recording, and ends up Gagging then Muting the offender, that's where this all stops. There's not enough evidence to take the situation further, or pursue a harsher punishment. The troll will get bored, eventually leave, and come back later on to harass others when the moderator is offline.

Correct, as it should be.  We punish according to our guidelines.  If they comeback and harass again, then we continue on with the next punishment in the protocol.  We are not overly trigger happy with trolling unless they cross into certain categories such as: racism, pedo stuff, death threats, suicide, and rape comments.

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But I think it's pretty hard to deny that there's a shortage of moderation in some aspects of the game servers. While it may not be much of a lack of it, we still have blindspots. We likely will always have blindspots, we can agree upon that, but we can also combat them. I can infer that my idea is going to be less than acceptable to some, and thats ok. We are merely talking about all this. But I would make the suggestion that we ease up on the staff application requirements just a little.

There are several reasons our staff team is small.  The biggest one is that we are very, very careful with who we allow to staff on the server.  Our server has a LOT of kids play primarily due to YouTubers occasionally playing PH which then means a lot of children will search for PH servers to play on.  Dinks has a dark past with staff members being community banned for their interactions with minors which is not something the PH admin team will allow to repeat.  As such, we are very selective with who we allow to join the team.  Additionally, being staff is...rough on a good day.  It can really suck the enjoyment out of the game after a while.  Many people don't want to deal with server issues and that's their prerogative.  Finally, we make sure that potential staff are on-board with the current staffing protocols.  If we feel they will just enforce their own rules, then they won't join the staff team.

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[TheSixthBaku]

I'm going to move this to PH suggestions.

I read through everything you said, And I can understand the consistency points. It was mainly just ideas, and a will to hear others' opinions on the matter. I'm glad you took the time to write as much as I did, it actually made me more interested in your post overall. Thank you for the feedback and knowledge!

[Wilfry]

You made me look at the guidelines again because I wasn't going to believe that staff are now giving 5 warns.

Anyways you can have fun with people but don't be toxic and ruin the moment by saying fucked uo shit, cursing a lot and anything beyond that.

I believe Chibill and Chelllman touch enough on the guideline subject.

And lastly the lack of staff.  While it is true that the admin team is careful on who they pick for staff, staffing does drain a bit from especially when you don't take a break from it(take it from me somebody who used to get in game everyday when being staff).  With the current requierements for staff, in my opinion I would say make playtime 100 hours+ if not then leave it as it is.

[RussEfarmer]

I only skimmed this since im doing other stuff rn but I completely agree that kicking the person does basically nothing and mini staff/staff shouldnt really bother with it

[Nuclear Trumpocalypse]

...well thought out wall of text...

Good observations, can't disagree. It's a challenge to staff fairly and safely, for sure. When staff are on, it works... but when it's only donors there's nothing we can do.

Also the overlay is still sometimes broken. Had to restart game again today.

[Jammin]

As a well-established prophunt player, having amassed roughly an incredible 57 minutes of in-game time, I feel qualified to give a side opinion.
TTT is a communication heavy game - there are certain gameplay aspects that come out via KOS's or proven declarations - things that may be time sensitive and are done via voice or text chat. Hence, clear comm channels are necessary for fundamental gameplay. By client muting someone, you run the risk of missing KOS's and potentially RDMing someone proven as a result. That's why mic/chat spam are not tolerated much, especially in alive chat. If you are going to play TTT, you have to be capable of communicating.

PH, on the other hand, isn't communication intensive. Other than taunting or hints on location, which are optional, the VC and text chat are there for social and assistance reasons. Thus, client muting random kids isn't an issue. Practically, the game could be played without sound. As such, the PH guidelines are more lenient.

The dumb vending machine has a good point about staffing standards, too - there really isn't much urgency in bringing more staff onboard, and before joining you'll be thoroughly investigated. We don't want nor need more trouble from staff members, which is why the current staff team is small but strong.