[Starling]

On behalf of someone who wishes to remain anonymous: Tiefling doesnt get to represent the lgbtq community, nor should she try to. She should only be offering her insight as a member of said community.

[Avi]

Now for a real voice for representing femininity and the queer/lbtgq+? --snip--

Now I do believe Damien can be quotes saying Teifling is "... the only real voice for for everyone who is either feminine presenting or part of the queer/lgbtq+ community)" so do explain why you are not going after that quote? 

staff does NOT have a lot of queer women. tiefling is one of the rare few. also, while i've had some private disagreements with things she's said, like 90% of the time her takes are in line with what i'd expect from a queer women - especially one that has to babysit this community lmao

---

I was told I could post this, so here are some screenshots with a situation that was handled incorrectly.  Essentially the staff were unsure how a rule worked on server, Foxka (not staff at the time) was explaining the rule (which he was correct per the MOTD), and the staff went to Tiefling for guidance outside of the server.  Tiefling incorrectly informed them of the rule and the situation was mishandled on server.  
--snip--
I can't say I can remember or know of other instances where rules were misinterpreted by Tiefling.

My main issue isn't this however, rather my experience playing with Tiefling on the server.  I was gone from the community for a couple of years, so I really know nothing of Tiefling before coming back earlier this year.  One of my first interactions with Tiefling felt off.  It probably won't mean a lot to most, but it came off as uncomfortable to me when it happened.
I was just playing TTT as it was, as a traitor, and killed Tiefling as an innocent.  I immediately received this pm on server:
--snip--

At this point I knew nothing about Tiefling, had only played on server a couple of times with her, and it came off more mad that I shot her than anything.  I wouldn't think too much about it, but I've come to find out that others have felt the same way with comments like that on server (that's on them to share, I'm only going to share my experiences here).

There were other things I noticed, but I've discussed those with other admins, and if they think it's necessary, they can have a conversation about it.

1. people make mistakes. one mishandled incident does not justify a demotion.
2. this is called a joke. I send messages like that all the time with people i'm trying to be friendly with.

I understand people make mistakes, not saying one incident = demotion because that would be silly.  We would have no staff at that point.  I just shared it to clarify/explain something brought up with all of this, to show that it did happen (not that someone was just talking out of nowhere about the situation since I was the only one with the full screenshots).  
As for your second point, I already stated that I wouldn't think too much on it but other people have said the same kind of thing where those comments don't come off as a joke.

[Damien]

On behalf of someone who wishes to remain anonymous: Tiefling doesnt get to represent the lgbtq community, nor should she try to. She should only be offering her insight as a member of said community.

what makes you so high and mighty Ms. "I don't wanna be involved in drama but continue to involve myself in every piece of drama that's happening when I come back". Why do you get to decide who is the voice for who in this community when you just came back after being in hiatus for so long.

[Starling]

Please look up the definition of anonymous.

[tiefling lesbian]

Essentially the staff were unsure how a rule worked on server, Foxka (not staff at the time) was explaining the rule (which he was correct per the MOTD), and the staff went to Tiefling for guidance outside of the server.  Tiefling incorrectly informed them of the rule and the situation was mishandled on server.

Multiple staff were complaining to me that foxka was arguing with their ruling for 15-20 minutes. I told them what I've always said on this topic: I don't believe players should be expected to have telepathic abilities or have to believe everything someone says; part of social deduction games is the chance that you won't be believed. If you can negate DNA by just saying you were RDMed without the other person having seen it or any other way to confirm that, then there's nothing stopping traitors from just saying they were RDMed after every kill and validly reporting anyone who kills them off of DNA, making the entire mechanic a pointless RDM trap (not saying that's what foxka did, but that is what it would entail).

My main issue isn't this however, rather my experience playing with Tiefling on the server.  I was gone from the community for a couple of years, so I really know nothing of Tiefling before coming back earlier this year.  One of my first interactions with Tiefling felt off.  It probably won't mean a lot to most, but it came off as uncomfortable to me when it happened.
I was just playing TTT as it was, as a traitor, and killed Tiefling as an innocent.  I immediately received this pm on server:

At this point I knew nothing about Tiefling, had only played on server a couple of times with her, and it came off more mad that I shot her than anything.  I wouldn't think too much about it, but I've come to find out that others have felt the same way with comments like that on server (that's on them to share, I'm only going to share my experiences here).

There were other things I noticed, but I've discussed those with other admins, and if they think it's necessary, they can have a conversation about it.

This was indeed a joke. You were the only other female TTT admin I knew about at the time (sorry hani) and I just thought it was a funny way to essentially say "hey look, we got another one on the board" in the moment. I took your silence as a sign that you weren't receptive to that kind of thing and refrained from joking like that afterwards. I apologize for conveying a different meaning than intended.

[Damien]

Tiefling is an admin who has insight on the lgbtq/queer community. She is the highest rank you can currently earn on any of the servers and it's silly to try and say she shouldn't be the voice of people who identify as an lgbtq/queer person and the voice of feminine presenting people in the community when she literally the highest rank. It'd be different if she was going around talking shit about her own community or continuously pushing down others for not being feminine presenting or not lgbtq/queer but she isn't, she's actively trying to create a safe space for these people and is the only ttt admin that truly can since she's the only one with the proper insight and experience to do so (No offence to chibill or icey, not my intention if that's how it comes across).

God forbid someone make jokes and fix that behavior when that behavior directly contributes to them not being able to become staff. Hell, no-one really even talked about the jokes I used to make a few years ago at the expense of the PH community (a LOT worse then what tiefling said at all) when I was on this go around as staff because people realized that people can fix their behavior.


Also jesus christ this is 15 pages

[EpicGuy]

I'm going to try to keep this short. My main issues that have been presented are:

- Tiefling asking members of the community about the goings on in private discord servers
- Tiefling staffing on another server
- Tiefling not knowing basic rules

Tiefling asking members of the community about the goings on in private discord servers: While Foxka may have asked Tiefling for feedback on his behavior, in my opinion, Tiefling asking about people messing with the guidelines is not an appropriate response. Foxka is asking about things that he has done. How is Tiefling asking about something completely unrelated to him an appropriate response? "Hey manager, I'm planning on asking for a promotion. Are there any behavioral concerns I should work on before asking?" "Yeah, what do you know about the guy on the 5th floor crapping in the toilet without flushing and smearing poop on the walls?" It doesn't make sense and is not an appropriate line of questioning, at that moment. At least answer his question first, then ask if he knows anything about people messing with the guidelines. Moreover, if you already knew, or had an idea of, who was doing the editing, why are people unrelated to the situation being questioned? Go directly to the people who are causing an issue. Somewhat unrelated, since people seem to have a problem with the word "gestapo" being thrown around (interesting that some people didn't have an issue with false accusations of illegal activity and harassment being thrown around, but I digress), I'll just say that this is secret police behavior.

Tiefling staffing on another server: Some people don't see an issue with this. I personally don't think that anyone should be staff on multiple servers. I really don't think that an admin should be staff on other servers, especially another server of the same game mode. How many CEOs, CIOs, CTOs, CFOs, board members, etc. do you see on the executive teams of other companies and organizations? I'm going to say not many, if any. Heck, how many times have you heard of regular employees having non-compete clauses in their contracts? I'm sure at least a few times. Why? Because it's a clear conflict of interest. There is no way that someone can give the same time, energy, care, passion, respect, etc. to one organization/server as they do another. Let alone the potential of sharing trade secrets with the other organization/server (I know. I know. "it's only Garry's Mod. Not real life!!!!!). One server is going to be the lesser of the two. That is just human nature. If the argument that Tiefling should be allowed to staff on another server is that the server is for friends, I ask why is there even staff on that server? Is RDM and rule breaking that prevalent and rampant that staff is needed to control a group of friends?

Tiefling not knowing basic rules: Tiefling telling staff that the person who killed Foxka should not be slain because Foxka killed an RDMing player, and Foxka's DNA was on that RDMing player is completely egregious. It's not a hard situation to piece together. There is no need for "telepathic abilities." Yes, this is a social deduction game where people often lie. But if you don't have concrete proof that the person is lying, then you either have to take them at their word or put, and you'll never believe this one, suspicion on the person. That's the entire point of having a separate category for things that you aren't entirely sure of, but think are plausible, but you have no definite proof; for reasons like this. This is something I have said for years: If someone has a traitor weapon and says that they got it from killing a traitor, but you have no proof that they did or didn't, are you going to kill the person immediately? I wouldn't. I would think, "hmm, that's suspicious, but I have no proof that they're lying." And if you did kill the person, and it turns out that they killed a traitor and got the weapon from their dead body, guess what? That's RDM and you should be slain. It doesn't take a doctorate in abstract thinking and philosophy to come to the correct conclusion. It should be common sense. And if it isn't common sense, it is explicitly stated in the rules that the person who killed Foxka should be slain. This one event should, at the very least, necessitate a talking to regarding knowledge of basic rules.

Finally, I have no idea when we put so much emphasis on being a voice for a group of people in such high regard as a condition of being an admin. If that's the case, then we need an admin for black people, Hispanic people, the disabled, the poor, the downtrodden, and every other human condition out there. Yes, I understand that certain groups are often mistreated and misrepresented. But if you treat everyone fairly, those in the minority, and the majority, will be dealt with the same way; fairly. If you're an admin, you should be a voice for everyone, not favor a certain group of people. I don't care if you're a cactus from Massachusetts or a polar bear from New Mexico, the job as an admin is to ensure that everybody is welcomed and treated with respect.

As usual, I try to keep these short and they never are.

[茶 Tea]

Tiefling staffing on another server: Some people don't see an issue with this. I personally don't think that anyone should be staff on multiple servers. I really don't think that an admin should be staff on other servers, especially another server of the same game mode. How many CEOs, CIOs, CTOs, CFOs, board members, etc. do you see on the executive teams of other companies and organizations? I'm going to say not many, if any. Heck, how many times have you heard of regular employees having non-compete clauses in their contracts? I'm sure at least a few times. Why? Because it's a clear conflict of interest. There is no way that someone can give the same time, energy, care, passion, respect, etc. to one organization/server as they do another. Let alone the potential of sharing trade secrets with the other organization/server (I know. I know. "it's only Garry's Mod. Not real life!!!!!). One server is going to be the lesser of the two. That is just human nature. If the argument that Tiefling should be allowed to staff on another server is that the server is for friends, I ask why is there even staff on that server? Is RDM and rule breaking that prevalent and rampant that staff is needed to control a group of friends?

this is silly. it doesn't matter if one server has less time devoted to it. you are NOT getting paid for your time.

Finally, I have no idea when we put so much emphasis on being a voice for a group of people in such high regard as a condition of being an admin. If that's the case, then we need an admin for black people, Hispanic people, the disabled, the poor, the downtrodden, and every other human condition out there. Yes, I understand that certain groups are often mistreated and misrepresented. But if you treat everyone fairly, those in the minority, and the majority, will be dealt with the same way; fairly. If you're an admin, you should be a voice for everyone, not favor a certain group of people. I don't care if you're a cactus from Massachusetts or a polar bear from New Mexico, the job as an admin is to ensure that everybody is welcomed and treated with respect.

the other two admins don't do this though. that's the problem

[chibill]

Tiefling staffing on another server: Some people don't see an issue with this. I personally don't think that anyone should be staff on multiple servers. I really don't think that an admin should be staff on other servers, especially another server of the same game mode. How many CEOs, CIOs, CTOs, CFOs, board members, etc. do you see on the executive teams of other companies and organizations? I'm going to say not many, if any. Heck, how many times have you heard of regular employees having non-compete clauses in their contracts? I'm sure at least a few times. Why? Because it's a clear conflict of interest. There is no way that someone can give the same time, energy, care, passion, respect, etc. to one organization/server as they do another. Let alone the potential of sharing trade secrets with the other organization/server (I know. I know. "it's only Garry's Mod. Not real life!!!!!). One server is going to be the lesser of the two. That is just human nature. If the argument that Tiefling should be allowed to staff on another server is that the server is for friends, I ask why is there even staff on that server? Is RDM and rule breaking that prevalent and rampant that staff is needed to control a group of friends?

this is silly. it doesn't matter if one server has less time devoted to it. you are NOT getting paid for your time.

Finally, I have no idea when we put so much emphasis on being a voice for a group of people in such high regard as a condition of being an admin. If that's the case, then we need an admin for black people, Hispanic people, the disabled, the poor, the downtrodden, and every other human condition out there. Yes, I understand that certain groups are often mistreated and misrepresented. But if you treat everyone fairly, those in the minority, and the majority, will be dealt with the same way; fairly. If you're an admin, you should be a voice for everyone, not favor a certain group of people. I don't care if you're a cactus from Massachusetts or a polar bear from New Mexico, the job as an admin is to ensure that everybody is welcomed and treated with respect.

the other two admins don't do this though. that's the problem

Okay, I have refrained from posting all this time, but Tea your really starting to piss me off with trying to drag Icey and I into this without know any deals about our life, what we have experience with or anything.  I may not be part of any of these groups but I know more then enough on how to prevent miss treatment and "stand up" for them.   So if you can kindly stop trying to bring people not involved into this and go take a reality check, it would be much appreciated.

[PandaInPants]

 Somewhat unrelated, since people seem to have a problem with the word "gestapo" being thrown around (interesting that some people didn't have an issue with false accusations of illegal activity and harassment being thrown around, but I digress), I'll just say that this is secret police behavior.

Tiefling staffing on another server: Some people don't see an issue with this. I personally don't think that anyone should be staff on multiple servers. I really don't think that an admin should be staff on other servers, especially another server of the same game mode. How many CEOs, CIOs, CTOs, CFOs, board members, etc. do you see on the executive teams of other companies and organizations? I'm going to say not many, if any. Heck, how many times have you heard of regular employees having non-compete clauses in their contracts? I'm sure at least a few times. Why? Because it's a clear conflict of interest. There is no way that someone can give the same time, energy, care, passion, respect, etc. to one organization/server as they do another. Let alone the potential of sharing trade secrets with the other organization/server (I know. I know. "it's only Garry's Mod. Not real life!!!!!). One server is going to be the lesser of the two. That is just human nature. If the argument that Tiefling should be allowed to staff on another server is that the server is for friends, I ask why is there even staff on that server? Is RDM and rule breaking that prevalent and rampant that staff is needed to control a group of friends?

Thats because it is weird to use the term for the official secret police of Nazi Germany and in German-occupied Europe to describe the actions of a gmod admin.

Also simply google searching if CEOs or board members work on other companies i got an article from Washington State Carson College Of Business stating how common it is. "C-suite executives often serve on the board of multiple corporations. Even within a corporation, they may be involved in multiple companies. Under the umbrella of Virgin Group Ltd., for instance, CEO Sir Richard Branson oversees some 400 businesses, including Virgin Megastores, Virgin Mobile, Virgin Radio, and Virgin Hotels." (https://onlinemba.wsu.edu/blog/ceos-who-...ne-company)  Plus non-compete clauses have just been banned in the United States by the FTC literally like a week ago.
Just sayin

@chibill (idk how to add quotes after i already posted) but to your response to tea if u know how to stand up for these people why haven't you guys done so yet?