[Swartsy]

it is silly to punish the person that arguably is just playing the game as it is meant to be played instead of the person who originally caused the whole mess. Also I've killed off DNA that was just someone killing an RDMer many times and never got slain for it, so to me it says that this rule is not very well enforced or understood, so it should be better stated in the motd or changed.

^

[matt_st3 (Strongrule)]

Ah now dna is another thing. Problem is, Rdmr A tried to kill Innocent B. B wins the fight bc it’s jimbo. Deftective C didn’t hear jimbo call this out (from what I’ve seen most people DO say when someone tried to RDM them) and just sees and gets dna from the body. He walks up to jimbo and kill him with a shotgun. Is jimbo in the wrong? No.
But did the detective shoot an innocent who protected himself by using gameplay mechanics? Yes.
RDM puts a wrinkle in the mechanics of the game, and causes confusion that shouldn’t be there. MUST the detective believe a call out of RDM? No. What if the detective saw the exchange, said jumbo was ok, does, and an Inno picks up the scanner and kills jimbo. Did the innocent rdm seeing the DNA from a detective? No, he is following a gameplay mechanic. Ideally (without RDM) innocent dna should never be on an Inno body.
Keep in mind, RDM is RANDOM deathmatch. DNA isn’t random, even tho it may point to someone who was defending themselves. Staff have to look at the report and use some brain cells to see if the killer holding DNA should know or not (witnessed the exchange or other equivalent) that the Inno shot first.
Here’s a fun chain: RDMr A shoots Inno B, who kills A. Inno C has a dna scanner and catches the dna, follows and kills B. However, Inno D saw the original exchange and then sees C kill B. So D kills C. This exchange can chain longer. B defended themselves, C has DNA, and D sees someone kill B for defending themselves. 3 innocents are dead but each kill was made for a valid reason. RDM and miscommunication happen. Note C never called the DNA out.
Stupid stuff like that happens a lot. I’ve seen links of up to 5 chained reports or a mass shooting happen over a single rdm.
So, I don’t know. If DNA is always kosable a lot of RDM can happen as a result, but if it’s not then a mechanic is thrown out. As staff i use this above discretion of what information the players have available to them, and go from there.

[boba]

So in conclusion...
If detective saw what happened and still continue to take DNA and kill the person. The slay shall fall onto them if the victim felt threatened from the KOS and RDM when detective was obviously and clearly watching.
If the detective isn't there and just randomly took DNA based on body calling from other players, shouldn't be RDM since they were unaware of the situation and they were called to the body for either credits or find culprit.

This is my thoughts about this situation. It's simple. It's either a douchebag or a nice friendly player.

[Ace1579]

I mean @"Guru Drak" doesn't use a mic so from what it looks like in the report he says he told jimbo to stop which i guess would be in chat so that would add to my whole thing about putting sus on guru since you can just look in the chat and see that guru told jimbo to stop....and since jimbo didn't stop he got killed for it

I could see how it could be a mix up if someone said it over the mic because not everyone pays attention.....But typing it in chat its always there and takes 2 seconds to check

[Loganater]

Duckyy pretty well summed it up, the idea of whether or not it's RDM to follow the DNA should be up to staff. But the way people were making it sound in earlier discussion was that even if you had no possible way of knowing that the person you had DNA on was defending themselves from an RDMer you would still get slain.

Again though, no real need for huge discussion on this, I can say I've never been slain or had a report kept on me for killing someone I had DNA on and had no idea they were just defending themselves. I always tell people report the person that tried to killed you and not me and that normally happens and everyone is happy.

[lacer]

So in conclusion...
If detective saw what happened and still continue to take DNA and kill the person. The slay shall fall onto them if the victim felt threatened from the KOS and RDM when detective was obviously and clearly watching.
If the detective isn't there and just randomly took DNA based on body calling from other players, shouldn't be RDM since they were unaware of the situation and they were called to the body for either credits or find culprit.

This is my thoughts about this situation. It's simple. It's either a douchebag or a nice friendly player.

See, I was the Detective in this situation, and I did not see it happen. I found Jimbo's body, got the DNA, and it led to Guru, which is why I killed him.

The reason I was slain is because I failed to pay attention to the chat, as Guru had called out why he killed Jimbo (Jimbo contests that Guru didn't give him enough time to stop what he was doing, but that's a story for another day.) and I killed Guru anyways.

[Cosmic Tortoise]

So in conclusion...
If detective saw what happened and still continue to take DNA and kill the person. The slay shall fall onto them if the victim felt threatened from the KOS and RDM when detective was obviously and clearly watching.
If the detective isn't there and just randomly took DNA based on body calling from other players, shouldn't be RDM since they were unaware of the situation and they were called to the body for either credits or find culprit.

This is my thoughts about this situation. It's simple. It's either a douchebag or a nice friendly player.

See, I was the Detective in this situation, and I did not see it happen. I found Jimbo's body, got the DNA, and it led to Guru, which is why I killed him.

The reason I was slain is because I failed to pay attention to the chat, as Guru had called out why he killed Jimbo (Jimbo contests that Guru didn't give him enough time to stop what he was doing, but that's a story for another day.) and I killed Guru anyways.

To clarify "enough time", Jimbo pulled me off the ledge once with grapple.  It took about ten seconds to return to my previous location after warning him to stop.  He grappled me a second time off the ledge, and shot him.  I believe ten seconds is plenty of time.

Had I been Innocent, Detective, or Traitor, the situation would have been the same result in terms of DNA from his grapple abuse.  Had I been detective, Laced likely would not have shot me.

---

Ah now dna is another thing. Problem is, Rdmr A tried to kill Innocent B. B wins the fight bc it’s jimbo. Deftective C didn’t hear jimbo call this out (from what I’ve seen most people DO say when someone tried to RDM them) and just sees and gets dna from the body. He walks up to jimbo and kill him with a shotgun. Is jimbo in the wrong? No.
But did the detective shoot an innocent who protected himself by using gameplay mechanics? Yes.
RDM puts a wrinkle in the mechanics of the game, and causes confusion that shouldn’t be there. MUST the detective believe a call out of RDM? No. What if the detective saw the exchange, said jumbo was ok, does, and an Inno picks up the scanner and kills jimbo. Did the innocent rdm seeing the DNA from a detective? No, he is following a gameplay mechanic. Ideally (without RDM) innocent dna should never be on an Inno body.
Keep in mind, RDM is RANDOM deathmatch. DNA isn’t random, even tho it may point to someone who was defending themselves. Staff have to look at the report and use some brain cells to see if the killer holding DNA should know or not (witnessed the exchange or other equivalent) that the Inno shot first.
Here’s a fun chain: RDMr A shoots Inno B, who kills A. Inno C has a dna scanner and catches the dna, follows and kills B. However, Inno D saw the original exchange and then sees C kill B. So D kills C. This exchange can chain longer. B defended themselves, C has DNA, and D sees someone kill B for defending themselves. 3 innocents are dead but each kill was made for a valid reason. RDM and miscommunication happen. Note C never called the DNA out.
Stupid stuff like that happens a lot. I’ve seen links of up to 5 chained reports or a mass shooting happen over a single rdm.
So, I don’t know. If DNA is always kosable a lot of RDM can happen as a result, but if it’s not then a mechanic is thrown out. As staff i use this above discretion of what information the players have available to them, and go from there.

I have seen such a chain before, as being Innocent D in a chain of five dead innocents from Innocent B rdming Innocent A ( or vice versa ).  Slender map where one by one an innocent was rdm'd by killing an rdming player in a chain over ten seconds, creating a pile of bodies in a single location.  Innocent F didn't die from killing Innocent E once sanity was called for, but I believe even with the chain RDM, innocents still won that round.

[Stingray]

Or like i said take the chance and shoot him but hey it is up too you and if you are wrong then RIP

So what your saying is its somehow diffirent if they are inno or traitor? If its a traitor lieing and you killed him for it its suddenly ok? Thats also saying doing something in ttt based off of a chance that it may be right is not slayable in itself. Its how the base rules are setup your breaking the game thinking this way!

[Trombowen]

Or like i said take the chance and shoot him but hey it is up too you and if you are wrong then RIP

So what your saying is its somehow diffirent if they are inno or traitor? If its a traitor lieing and you killed him for it its suddenly ok? Thats also saying doing something in ttt based off of a chance that it may be right is not slayable in itself. Its how the base rules are setup your breaking the game thinking this way!

From what the rules are as of now, it's not acceptable either way.

[boba]

So in conclusion...
If detective saw what happened and still continue to take DNA and kill the person. The slay shall fall onto them if the victim felt threatened from the KOS and RDM when detective was obviously and clearly watching.
If the detective isn't there and just randomly took DNA based on body calling from other players, shouldn't be RDM since they were unaware of the situation and they were called to the body for either credits or find culprit.

This is my thoughts about this situation. It's simple. It's either a douchebag or a nice friendly player.

See, I was the Detective in this situation, and I did not see it happen. I found Jimbo's body, got the DNA, and it led to Guru, which is why I killed him.

The reason I was slain is because I failed to pay attention to the chat, as Guru had called out why he killed Jimbo (Jimbo contests that Guru didn't give him enough time to stop what he was doing, but that's a story for another day.) and I killed Guru anyways.

That's the third scenario that's rarely really used. I guess it just depends on the staff that handle the situation. Because from what I last recall, if the staff deemed that it is necessary to slay or not depends on themselves. What they think would be right. Usually on most cases, detective or others would put suspicion. But are we going to use that scenario for the same thing over voice? Anyway, I still honestly don't believe you should gotten the slay. If we are making the RDMer slain, why should the detective get slay for his/her mistake? The detective simply followed a DNA unless it was a traitors body then that's just different thing. 

Let's put Matt's example to this case, it still goes back to who RDM. Even if you fail to read chat, I don't think it's your fault. What if it was voice chat? You didn't know but the others did. In those scenario, it just depends on how you chose to play the game. I dealt with these type of things in the past and before we always handle it the way we think is necessary. In most cases, people apologise and it's up to us to make the final decision. If it's not on the motd and you don't know what to do. You make the final call. Usually it's supposed to be suspicion only but it just depends on the detective or player who took DNA. So if you did read chat, and Jimbo said he was getting RDM but you didn't witness it and you just follow your DNA either way . Is it still your fault for failure to witness the situation??? No. It isn't.