[OverwatchJunky]

So these issues have been discussed many times at length and opinions are always divided. We try to make things as fair as possible and also make things fun for everyone too. It’s a difficult balance. When I first joined I would look at others spots and think wow how did they do that? That motivated me to get better and more inventive with my spots. 

However it does irritate me when people constantly hide as a tiny part of a prop or try to bend the rules. Personally I mix it up depending on who is on the server. If I’m on with a lot of new players I will try and survive as the biggest prop in a ridiculous place, if our seasoned players are on then I’ll choose my more complicated spots. 

If we micro manage this issue too much it will take a lot of the fun out of the game and also makes it more difficult to staff. We use the spots list as guidance and we will also ask for opinions from each other if we aren’t sure. Will we get it right 100% of the time...no. Do we try to keep things as fair as possible...yes.

Prop hunt should be a clear and straight forward game, props should be fair in how they hide and how the player should interpret what's legal and illegal to do. You keep saying that a certain upper staff told you some of your questionable spots were ok and that was @"Nuru" . This advice must either be dated or recent. I was shown what you were doing with the ladder and that was a big no. Those little hinges that are part of the prop are just around the size of what the peg leg of the blue chair would be. People shouldn't have to hide their props in the walls to begin with. Especially those props with broken hitboxes of rotation. This is only possible because of the prop menu letting you turn into it next to the walls. Prop sense is easy to get. My best advice is to think about spots if the prop menu didn't exist. And also think of the size of the prop, it's common sense that if you're only showing a peg of a big prop and the rest of it is in the wall, then something is wrong. Seasoned players will probably find you, but new players won't even know the prop menu exists. Even if they are told it's capabilities, most will think that wall hiding is cheap.

Someone not being able to find me does not make me illegal though. Many new players do not have the jump pack. Does that make all parkour spots illegal because some people can;t get to someone? No. They have to spend time and effort to find that player just like Regulars, Donors and staff have spent time getting good at the game.

I do think about all that. And just like Pixie said, I used those spots when staff or regulars and donors are on the opposite team.

My prop was visible and shootable. beyond that its a matter of being fair, and I believe I was being fair. And I was asked to expose my prop more, and I did. If people aren't free camming then they may not see the prop from the proper angle and just accuse someone of being illegal, when screenshots show that I was fine.

But the part that concerned me more was that the situation wasn't approached properly. I was called out publicly instead of being messaged. If people have an issue with a spot someone uses, they should message staff and not make it public via chat or voice chat especially if they aren't staff.

[Abdel]

You're still missing the point that you're abusing a known glitch with the prop rotation, if a staff asks to show more you show more. Not spin this into comparing it to something like jump pack spots. A guideline was made because of the jump pack spots, it's at the top of the rules. This is prop hunt, not hide in the wall and find the peg hunt.

[RussEfarmer]

Someone not being able to find me does not make me illegal though. Many new players do not have the jump pack. Does that make all parkour spots illegal because some people can;t get to someone? No. They have to spend time and effort to find that player just like Regulars, Donors and staff have spent time getting good at the game.

The concern is less of a spot being explicitly illegal and more of, as I said previously, it being so terrible for someone to find that it might as well be illegal. It's a fine line in that regard, but I think staff are evaluating spots as "completely unfair" just about as well as they can right now. It certainly beats the other alternatives, where all hard spots are illegal and you can't hide as a prop without being barked at, or no hard spots are illegal and finding props becomes a painstaking task of looking for a singular off color pixel in some obscure corner of the map.

The jump pack argument is a whole other complicated issue, an issue I looked into in depth in this thread.

[[test] Hollow Moon]

honestly even if you are a "expert player" pixel hunting prop hunt is all about blending in as a prop Yes of course.... but blending in to where you are almost invisible to where new players cant find you or well anyone really isnt fun at all for them and overwatch the best thing to do is even though a staff might have approved and a staff dissaproved it or more vise versa.  Its best if you say okay and just leave it alone find a new spot and move on if they tell you to show more then just show more. staff isnt here to make the game boring and to annoy you. we are simply here for everyone to have fun for the newcomers members master regulars donors and including staff the game is all about fun yes but also with conisderation for other people

[unfortunatepossum]

So these issues have been discussed many times at length and opinions are always divided. We try to make things as fair as possible and also make things fun for everyone too. It’s a difficult balance. When I first joined I would look at others spots and think wow how did they do that? That motivated me to get better and more inventive with my spots. 

However it does irritate me when people constantly hide as a tiny part of a prop or try to bend the rules. Personally I mix it up depending on who is on the server. If I’m on with a lot of new players I will try and survive as the biggest prop in a ridiculous place, if our seasoned players are on then I’ll choose my more complicated spots. 

If we micro manage this issue too much it will take a lot of the fun out of the game and also makes it more difficult to staff. We use the spots list as guidance and we will also ask for opinions from each other if we aren’t sure. Will we get it right 100% of the time...no. Do we try to keep things as fair as possible...yes.

Prop hunt should be a clear and straight forward game, props should be fair in how they hide and how the player should interpret what's legal and illegal to do. You keep saying that a certain upper staff told you some of your questionable spots were ok and that was @"Nuru" . This advice must either be dated or recent. I was shown what you were doing with the ladder and that was a big no. Those little hinges that are part of the prop are just around the size of what the peg leg of the blue chair would be. People shouldn't have to hide their props in the walls to begin with. Especially those props with broken hitboxes of rotation. This is only possible because of the prop menu letting you turn into it next to the walls. Prop sense is easy to get. My best advice is to think about spots if the prop menu didn't exist. And also think of the size of the prop, it's common sense that if you're only showing a peg of a big prop and the rest of it is in the wall, then something is wrong. Seasoned players will probably find you, but new players won't even know the prop menu exists. Even if they are told it's capabilities, most will think that wall hiding is cheap.

Someone not being able to find me does not make me illegal though. Many new players do not have the jump pack. Does that make all parkour spots illegal because some people can;t get to someone? No. They have to spend time and effort to find that player just like Regulars, Donors and staff have spent time getting good at the game.

I do think about all that. And just like Pixie said, I used those spots when staff or regulars and donors are on the opposite team.

My prop was visible and shootable. beyond that its a matter of being fair, and I believe I was being fair. And I was asked to expose my prop more, and I did. If people aren't free camming then they may not see the prop from the proper angle and just accuse someone of being illegal, when screenshots show that I was fine.

But the part that concerned me more was that the situation wasn't approached properly. I was called out publicly instead of being messaged. If people have an issue with a spot someone uses, they should message staff and not make it public via chat or voice chat especially if they aren't staff.

I am a bit confused. Were you called out by staff or by another player? If it was staff then ive seen this done many times, players are asked to move or become more visible over chat or VC, its very common and the easiest and quickest way to ask. Yes a pm is nice but not necessary, or required. If it was another player then tell them to either talk to staff about it or if no staff is on then request them to free cam to see the spot from other angles.

[OverwatchJunky]

So these issues have been discussed many times at length and opinions are always divided. We try to make things as fair as possible and also make things fun for everyone too. It’s a difficult balance. When I first joined I would look at others spots and think wow how did they do that? That motivated me to get better and more inventive with my spots. 

However it does irritate me when people constantly hide as a tiny part of a prop or try to bend the rules. Personally I mix it up depending on who is on the server. If I’m on with a lot of new players I will try and survive as the biggest prop in a ridiculous place, if our seasoned players are on then I’ll choose my more complicated spots. 

If we micro manage this issue too much it will take a lot of the fun out of the game and also makes it more difficult to staff. We use the spots list as guidance and we will also ask for opinions from each other if we aren’t sure. Will we get it right 100% of the time...no. Do we try to keep things as fair as possible...yes.

Prop hunt should be a clear and straight forward game, props should be fair in how they hide and how the player should interpret what's legal and illegal to do. You keep saying that a certain upper staff told you some of your questionable spots were ok and that was @"Nuru" . This advice must either be dated or recent. I was shown what you were doing with the ladder and that was a big no. Those little hinges that are part of the prop are just around the size of what the peg leg of the blue chair would be. People shouldn't have to hide their props in the walls to begin with. Especially those props with broken hitboxes of rotation. This is only possible because of the prop menu letting you turn into it next to the walls. Prop sense is easy to get. My best advice is to think about spots if the prop menu didn't exist. And also think of the size of the prop, it's common sense that if you're only showing a peg of a big prop and the rest of it is in the wall, then something is wrong. Seasoned players will probably find you, but new players won't even know the prop menu exists. Even if they are told it's capabilities, most will think that wall hiding is cheap.

Someone not being able to find me does not make me illegal though. Many new players do not have the jump pack. Does that make all parkour spots illegal because some people can;t get to someone? No. They have to spend time and effort to find that player just like Regulars, Donors and staff have spent time getting good at the game.

I do think about all that. And just like Pixie said, I used those spots when staff or regulars and donors are on the opposite team.

My prop was visible and shootable. beyond that its a matter of being fair, and I believe I was being fair. And I was asked to expose my prop more, and I did. If people aren't free camming then they may not see the prop from the proper angle and just accuse someone of being illegal, when screenshots show that I was fine.

But the part that concerned me more was that the situation wasn't approached properly. I was called out publicly instead of being messaged. If people have an issue with a spot someone uses, they should message staff and not make it public via chat or voice chat especially if they aren't staff.

I am a bit confused. Were you called out by staff or by another player? If it was staff then ive seen this done many times, players are asked to move or become more visible over chat or VC, its very common and the easiest and quickest way to ask. Yes a pm is nice but not necessary, or required. If it was another player then tell them to either talk to staff about it or if no staff is on then request them to free cam to see the spot from other angles.

A player called me out in text chat instead of messaging staff that was on the server at the time. There was a styaff IN the server at the time so they should have sent a PM to that staff and allowed them to handle it.

In either case, I sent them screenshots of the spot. I did adjust myself to be more visible and I was still told not to hide there again as that prop which is completely ridiculous. I had been shot directly (not nubetubed) in that spot at least 3 times that match as well so people can indeed see and shoot me. They never went into freecam even when I asked them to so the they could be absolutely sure despite them screenshots, and just flat out said I cannot hide there.

I DID make myself more visible but they still said I could not hide there.
I am obviously not going to name names here and now. It would be immature and just be my word against someone elses without any evidence. If it happens again I will definitely record it.

[VolfVoss]

Moral of the story:

Play prop hunt and not Pixel hunt.

Being more visible isn't a bad thing.

Have Fun. 

Listening to staff is cool and causes less issues than arguing.

Stop trying to cheat/bend the system.

JUST PLAY THE FETCHING GAME GRETCHEN!!!!!